FYI Luftwobbles, the Yak is....

[leonid]

Snefens,

Actually though the G-6 had a better engine than the G-2, the increased weight and drag of the G-6 could not be compensated, resulting in a 'messer' that had less power loading than a G-2.  I think if you compare power loading of both the G-2 and G-6 you'll see the difference.

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leonid, Kompol
5 GIAP VVS-KA, Knights

"Our cause is just.  The enemy will be crushed.  Victory will be ours."

[Wmaker]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
The move from 109G2 to 109G6 actually decreased the thrust to weight ratio.

...Depends on which engine/injectionsystem that G-6 you are talking about has...

[LLv34_Snefens]

ok, so ONE 109 had worse power rating than its predescessor, and that is like Wmaker says only some variants of it.

IMO, saying that the power ratio went up is more correct than the opposite.

[leonid]

I may be mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the most produced variant of the G-6 had an inferior power loading when compared to the average G-2.

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[juzz]

I'd say most G-6 would have had the same engine as the G-2; DB 605A-1.

[danish]

True that the G6 at first were a disapointment for the pilots.The plane were delivered to JG's in the Mediterranean area (..like Africa ;=) February 1943, first recorded loss was the G6 of Uffz. Opitz of 5/JG53 March 4 1943.Engine were the same as the previously flown G2's and G4's, only significant difference being new pair of MG 131's.
Its reasonable safe so say that late 1943 Field Conversion Sets for the G6 are out with MW50 (and GM1, and, and, and..), raising sea output from 1485hp to 1800hp (if memory serves me).
The whole idea of Field Conversion Sets is a stroke of genious, more so as the war goes by, stress on major assembly plants in the homeland is increasing.Down side is that it is diffucult to *prove* much now afterwards.The stuff were retrofitted at the units, and no central recordings were made of this.

Regarding the numerically situation on the east front I can only recommend you to read the new "Black Cross, Red Star" Vol 1.LW were down on numbers right from the start.The art is of course to create local superiority.. ;=)

danish

[JG5_Jerry]

When flying the Yak (and if HiTech actually model it's gun performance correctly) one has to bear in mind that the Yaks guns had a very high rate of fire. I think the Yak in AH has a decent enough ammo load, but (as was the case with Soviet training) you must make sure you can position yourself to get a clean shot.

As for the sluggishness of the 109 - that term must be seen as comparative. It was sluggish compared to the 109F, but not sluggish per se. Most sims tend to make the 109G-6 sluggish because they don't grasp the fact that the term 'sluggish' (or whatever) was made by LW pilots when they compared it to the earlier variants. This does not of course mean that the G6 was sluggish compared to everything else  

[Citabria]

have any of you guys even flown the 109g6 lately?

trust me it aint sluggish in AH

[danish]

Agree with JG5_Jerry and Cit.
Compared to the AH G2 the G6 is of course a tad more heavy, but the punch is better (halleluja..), climb decent, and if you are used to the G10, the handling plesantly surprising.
Of curse it still isnt any killer by no means, and it certanly isnt any great escaper.So you have to choose wisely, and keep SA up.
AFAIR it has been shown by numbers earlier that our G6 is without MW50.Not surprisingly: it *is* among the slower planes.However it comes with the Galland panzer and Erla haube.Especially the latter was introduced "..at the end of 1943..".So I guess we have to pretend we have a 43/44 G6, but that we momentarily ran out of MW50 Conversion Sets ;=)

Just to link to the subject to this thread (better late than never):
How will a AH duel G6/Yak 9 go?
Well the Yak has the all important ace up its sleeve: it can disengage at will.Other than that I would expect a close duel, winner will be best pilot.Tactics will be similar for both: vertical E fighting with plenty of high yo-yo's and vertical scissors.However the Yak will have a slight edge here because of its more powerfull engine.Defensive there will be same strategies as well: both planes have realtivly weak armament and one can accept the bogie on ones six without too many fears.Tactics will then be to force overshoot.The G6 will have the slight edge here as it has a sligthly higher drag (at least that is my perception..) + at the point of throttle closure the Yak (on your six, remember) will often have substantly higher speed.The overshoot will then evolve in more vertical maneuvers.
All just IMO of course.

Hmm feel tempted to delete it all.This post might be overshoot for sure heh.

danish

[juzz]

I doubt the Yak has more than the Gustavs 1475HP?

G-6 is in the same boat as the Spitfire F.IX - 1942 engine in the 1944 airframe.  

[danish]

Havnt got that much litterature about Soviet aircraft, however a seemingly competent book by William Green "Famous Fighters of the second World War" states that the M-107A engine of the Yak-9U provided 1620 hp for take off.

danish

[JG5_Jerry]

Danish - a friend and I tried out a G6 vs Yak H2H game several months ago. We eventually did get into a series of loops, and the Yak seemed to have slightly better energy retention. Which meant that after a while, he got enough time to just clip my right elevator, and after that I just couldn't get any edge over him, so he got me eventually. I think the firepower of both planes is good - if your gunnery skills are up to it. No ammo-chugging long bursts will get you anywhere (unless your target just flies straight   ). Both planes are my favourite in AH, but I do think all 109s after the F in all sims so far are a bit too unresponsive at normal speeds.

[danish]

Vv that Jerry.The (sligthly?) better E retention + the better thrust/weight ratio (have to be carefull here - hate numbers..) will - all things else being equal - give the Yak the upper hand eventually in the vertical fight.
But!The exact same features will give the G6 the advantage in a defensive forced overshoot situation.Off course if it is the Yak that overshoots from behind the G6 we will just enter a new round of the vertical dance, again with the Yak as slightly superior, but no room for errors .However if the situation in the intended forced overshoot is reversed (ie G6 on Yak's six) the situation will be somewhat more difficult for the Yak.Good E retention is a handicap here.
And this is the situation where the kill is most likely to happend: failure of intended forced overshoot!
But the ace up the sleeve: if the Yak reads the situation  he will extend and seperate in time - most likely through a split es.

Using defensive maneuvers as a way to go offensive isnt that often seen in AH.Guess people have gotten used to either get the kill on the first offensive passes, or just let go.
Is of course linked to the multicannon birds.They are thirteen a dozen in the MA, and to think forced overshoot against a Chog or Nikki or Tiffie or... really tends to bring you on your toes.

danish - 43 and still cant spell

[This message has been edited by danish (edited 12-14-2000).]

[leonid]

Interesting discussion, folks  

Regarding G-6 vs -9U, and overshooting, I'd like to contribute my experiences.

I've flown the Yak-9U a lot in AH, and before that the La-5FN.  The planes I really like to meet up with are, of course, German: Bf 109 and Fw 190.  After many such encounters in the MA, I must say that a Yak-9U has about as good rudder movement as a messer, even at low speeds.  

Many of us are familiar with the unique evasive employed by 109 drivers, those hard vertical, low-speed rudder turns that look like a cross between a barrel roll and a yoyo.  In a La-5FN it is difficult to follow this maneuver, but just possible.  However, in a Yak-9U one can actually anticipate this maneuver, and through a combination of throttle and maneuver place a Yak in a parallel heading with such a 109.  This often results in an advantageous trailing position on said 109 after about 2-3 passes.

The Yak-9U in AH really enjoys being 'yanked' around into hard maneuver, whether they be rudder turns, snap rolls, or anything at low speed.  The stall boundary is very defined, and while the gap in between is not as wide as some aircraft, the Yak-9U responses enthusiastically to even modest stick or pedal input.  Combining this with an excellent initial turn rate, a very good roll rate, great e-retention, and high top speed, the Yak-9U is quite a handful for an adversary.

[danish]

Vv that Leonid!
The G6 pilot certantly have to be on guard and break out of the (vertical) scissor dance before the yak gets on his 6.If that happens speed tends to be low, maneuverability restricted, and a deadly up-close blow will often be delt.
The break out will be a split es reaching for the 300 m/h before levelling out, and set up for the next intended overshoot.However if things get close the overshoot can be done also in the vertical, diving.
Apart from a slightly more responsiveless handling the G10 has a rather vicious torque when doing the slow speed scissors and web is on, however doing the close scissors is a matter of doing them at a slower speed than the bogie so you get behind him, and preferebly a little below (this is often seen in MA) - so web will only be applied for short bursts. In that regard the G6 handles the scissors better, but the brute force of the G10 gives it another little trick that (allmost) negates this: when the bogie starts to get behind - and perhaps a little lower - the G10 in the slow scissors, he can barrel roll with throttle around 33%: just to keep it handling.If done right the G10 will be somewhat lower and a little behind the bogie (read: Yak .When applying Throttle + Web now, the bogie will be in a unpleasant situation, more so that he will not be able so see the G10 at once.
This can be done with the g6 also, but has to be timed more closely or it will just hang below, possibly in dire straights.

I agree with Leonid that there is something special about the LW/VVS duels you encounter in the arena
Planes are well matched, and fights will often be hard fought.
As I understand it East Front Terrain has been created through the Terrain Editor.Im still hoping for a HA setup, but havnt got that many illusions.HTC minimalistic "safty first" approach to the sim has brought them here.But I frankly dosnt expect much more.Why should they: at the moment they are No 1.

danish