Tank to Tank engagement ranges

[715]

Thanks Badger!

Re 'hiding': I think that would entail a huge change to the graphics engine.  The things we see to hide behind, like trees, rocks, sheep, are randomly placed by our own FE and others online don't see the same trees etc.  Having all that detail sync'd between players would be a major change.

[Pongo]

Thats why i proposed a work around that shortens the range of the icon to represent tactical driving. and maybe even removes the longrange "dot" if a ground vehicle takes the time to establish an "ambush". You dont want to clutter up the terrain with frame robing detail, cause you would never achieve realisic levels of clutter anyway.

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[Pyro]

Studies I have on tank engagements in the summer of 44 report the average engagement range in open terrain to be 1200 yards and the average for close terrain was 400 yards.

We want to keep the tank part of the game fairly simple.  There are some simple improvements to be made in the area of visibility and a few other things, but the vehicles are only there as complementary to the aircraft side.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Badger]

Hi Pyro....

Thanks for the feedback....

I would have thought the study above would have been pretty definitive, given the officialdom of the source and the detailed statistics gathering, much of which I didn't publish here for sake of brevity.

I'm sure Charles Lemons, who I mentioned above, is the curator of the Patton Museum would be very interested in your sources of material that place the mean distance at almost twice (1200 yards) what official records indicate for Europe.  Is there any chance of posting those research sources so I could continue discussions with him?

I do agree with your premise that the tank and vehicle aspect of AH will always be secondary to the primary focus of being a flight sim.  To be honest, if I want to have complete realism from a ground war perspective, I don't think it currently exists with perhaps the exception of Panzer Elite, an off-line tank simulator.  Some public and private discussions with developers over at WWII On-line lead to claims that they will have the definitive on-line counterpart encompassing all aspects of ground battle such as tanks. To be honest, I am highly suspect of those claims, in spite of the marketing pics they have posted and given the real life graphics limitations I have already referred to.

In any event, I'm not promoting here that AH try to achieve perfect reality in the ground war aspect of the game, but rather balance playability against some recognition of what it was really like in toe to toe engagements using AFVs.  From what you've described in revealing some of your directions with visual acuity and icon ranges, it sounds to me like you're on the right track and we appreciate those efforts to address the current arcade kind of imbalance.  Thanks.

Regards,
Badger

[Cobra]

This is one of the more interesting and fascinating threads I have read.

I agree with Pyro's general statement that the vehicles are meant to be more complimentary in nature to the flight sim aspect.

Having said that, one of the most immersive experiences I've had so far here, is when I was part of an armored column push as a Panzer on an airfield.

We had Panzers and M16's, with an awesome fight for air-superiority going on above us.

Couple that with an enemy armored column rolling out to meet us and WOW!

Stopping to fire at the enemy ground units, then moving to avoid fire, calling in for air-support and watching enemy air come at us, then above all of that, the dogfights that took place to gain the air-superiority to keep the skies clear for the Jabo's and the armor was, again, totally immersive.

If the excellent suggestions were to be added regarding the icon idents, the immersion level would only increase.

So while this is a Flight Sim at heart, the vehicle aspect has added so many new possible dimensions in planning, strategy, and immersion.

I know this is a long post and I haven't added anything of suggestive value, but I just had to comment on the quality of the thread, and my own experience with the addition of the ground aspect.

Cobra out!