Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0

[Stoney]

Crew members should be given Kriss Super-V's and MP-7's, the more the merrier.  This is meant in all seriousness, you can't hijack a plane with 30-40 guns at your head.

I'll take the train when this starts happening...

[DREDger]

It's about time we the people of the west take a factual look at things and throw down the perceived shackles of terrorism and get on with our lives.  

Ok Lynx, so bottom line, what are you proposing?   

I get the point that the threat of terrorism for those in the west in actuality very very slim.

Are you suggesting we need to get on with our lives and not worry about terrorism?  From my perspective we are already doing that.  Me, and no-one I know is even remotely worried about terrorism personally affecting them.  We go to work, take kid to park, shop at mall, whatever.

[LYNX]

Ok Lynx, so bottom line, what are you proposing?   

I get the point that the threat of terrorism for those in the west in actuality very very slim.

Are you suggesting we need to get on with our lives and not worry about terrorism?  From my perspective we are already doing that.  Me, and no-one I know is even remotely worried about terrorism personally affecting them.  We go to work, take kid to park, shop at mall, whatever.

With reference to airport security I think everything is already in hand.  I'm saying the customers shouldn't be made to jump through more hoops than they already are.  The protocols that are in place need honing is all.  We don't really need millions to be spent on body X-ray machines, rubber gloves and lube. 

Just because things don't make the paper, it doesn't mean they aren't happening.  Which goes to prove my point about our present protocols working But, every new attempt is aimed at exploiting some perceived weakness.  I agree that the shoe-bomber and this latest knucklehead both appear to be clowns of the terrorist world.  However, the real perps are extremely patient and persistent people.  They tried to blow up the WTC once and failed, but came back 7 years later and achieved a success beyond their expectations.  9/11 emboldened them, inspired these wanna-bes like the Shoe Bomber, et al, but they will be back.  We made the airports and airplanes hard targets.  They moved on to trains (twice) and buses.  We make the trains and buses hard targets, they'll move on to the next thing we haven't thought of.  Until they're either all dead, or lose their zealousness, we're stuck with this crap forever.

This isn't the day after 9/11.  We're nearly 10 years beyond that and Al-freakin-Qaeda is nothing in comparison with which it once was.  If I, as an intardnet geezer, can see that then why can't you, the rest of the world and the powers that be.  I'm not saying we shouldn't be vigilant or stop them (terrorists) from regrouping or refinancing.  I'm saying it's time for the authorities to stop pandering, knee jerk style, to every incident.     

Until they're either all dead, or lose their zealousness, we're stuck with this crap forever.

  Very true another thing to consider is if it ain't these guys it'll be another group.  Excluding the IRA Uk has to deal with 53 groups and the USA 47.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations

[trigger2]

Crew members should be given Kriss Super-V's and MP-7's, the more the merrier.  This is meant in all seriousness, you can't hijack a plane with 30-40 guns at your head.  
-Penguin

w00t!

Now they don't have to bring weapons on, they can just get them in flight!

[Penguin]

Penguin

What's with the Rambo mentality?  You do realise what happens when an aircraft is suddenly depressurized right?

*ahem*

Check Mythbusters:

They did an experiment where they fired a bullet into the wall of a plane (pressurized as if it were at 35,000 feet or so), and it did not suck everything out.

Next, not everyone has the guts to kill a person, you're looking at maybe on or two people firing.  Third, you would have to get through quite a few bullets before you actually would be looking at problem; note that the guns are all pistol caliber.  If you want to go down to 9mm, that works too.  The Glock 18 (full auto) and 17 (semi-auto) provide great firepower for the crew and passengers, respectively.

This is also why those masks drop down, to give you oxygen while the crew goes down to lower altitudes: how do you think that those bomber crews in WWII survived?  Finally, anything that the passengers do to themselves is better than what the hijacker will do: either blow up the plane or fly it into something.

-Penguin

[JunkyII]

M9s for the crew........

[sluggish]

The problem with guns on international flights is the same as guns on merchant vessels; most industrialized nations have long since disarmed their subjects.  Oh... And I don't think everyone should be asigned weapons upon entry of the craft but I think CCW holders should be able to carry on planes.  Just the fact that it would be well known that there are guns on board would make their use highly unlikely.  An armed airplane is a polite airplane, to paraphrase...

[Penguin]

w00t!

Now they don't have to bring weapons on, they can just get them in flight!

Wrong again:

Nobody can win a one vs. hundred, even with unlimited ammo and no clips; realize that you are being drawn down on from every direction at once.  That's why everybody gets one in their armrest, and the weapons are only released by the pilot when he sees a threat.

EDIT:

The problem with guns on international flights is the same as guns on merchant vessels; most industrialized nations have long since disarmed their subjects.  Oh... And I don't think everyone should be asigned weapons upon entry of the craft but I think CCW holders should be able to carry on planes.  Just the fact that it would be well known that there are guns on board would make their use highly unlikely.  An armed airplane is a polite airplane, to paraphrase...

Right, but the guns are locked until there is a threat.

-Penguin

 

[DREDger]

With reference to airport security I think everything is already in hand.  I'm saying the customers shouldn't be made to jump through more hoops than they already are.  The protocols that are in place need honing is all.  We don't really need millions to be spent on body X-ray machines, rubber gloves and lube. 

I agree with that to some degree.  I think profiling like El Al does would be a good start.  For example, I would personally expect to recieve more scrutiny than a grandma, being an able bodied man and in the age demographic of terrorists. 

As far as the body scanners, I think they are a great idea and I'm all for it.  Why not?  The technology is there, and it's presence might very well thwart a would be underwear bomber. 

[RTHolmes]

Penguin you think there might be a small chance of crossfire being a problem with 400ish armed, mostly untrained civilians blasting away in the confines of a 747 deck?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM

1m:00s - 2m:00s

[Stoney]

I'm saying it's time for the authorities to stop pandering, knee jerk style, to every incident.

I'll agree with you there--but let's face it, they're politicians and don't know how to do anything else.  But, there is a daily, active threat out there.  I think those stats you first posted try to downplay that.  The bottom line is that given the opportunity, the real perps would kill you and I.  They want to do that every day.  We have to prevent them from having the opportunity.  That takes vigilance.

[Penguin]

Penguin you think there might be a small chance of crossfire being a problem with 400ish armed, mostly untrained civilians blasting away in the confines of a 747 deck?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM

1m:00s - 2m:00s

Most people won't be gutsy enough to pull the trigger, and even if a few fall, their deaths won't be in vain.  The killers would be dead, and battered and bloodied, the pilot would put the plane down as fast as he could.

-Penguin

[Shamus]

Wrong again:

Nobody can win a one vs. hundred, even with unlimited ammo and no clips; realize that you are being drawn down on from every direction at once.  That's why everybody gets one in their armrest, and the weapons are only released by the pilot when he sees a threat.

EDIT:
Right, but the guns are locked until there is a threat.

-Penguin

 

I'm pretty old and have heard lots of things in my life, so this isn't the stupidest thing I have ever heard...but it comes close.

shamus 

[Simba]

Hoho, our favourite Penguin has yet to learn how to think things through before presenting his proposals and opinions. But he ain't bad for a young'un, the world would be less amusing without him.

 



 

[Widewing]

M9s for the crew........

Unfortunately, the M9 is not a very good pistol. I've managed to break several of them. It won't be long before they get yanked and replaced with a better weapon. We've been testing Sigs, which will soon equip all of SOCOM, and will probably replace the M9 eventually.


My regards,

Widewing