Film for JB21 & dhart

[AWwrgwy]

No accusations on anyone's part.  Just a fun fight.  P-39Q vs. FW190A8 and P-51B.

JB said he filmed it also and said he would post to compare.

He was wondering why I wasn't going down.  I replied, "you missed alot."  He did.  So did I.
 
I got dhart's 51 with a Tater that finally hit.  (Spraying and praying).  I felt I had a chance still until JB21 finally took off an elevator.  I should have chopped throttle while "stick stirring" (tried to do a rolling scissor) but missed my chance.

I had fun anyway.

<S> JB21 and dhart.

Anyway, here's the film.

http://www.mediafire.com/?cjtjv2kzt2n

I'd like to see the it from the other side.


wrongway

[dmdchief]

That was fun to watch both from your plane and from jb21's even from the chase view it was good, you flew better than I could have.
SALUTE
AB8AAC/dmdchief

[Boozeman]

Wrongway, I hope you don't mind some constructive criticism, but seeing a fellow P-39 driver struggle with a 190A8 on his six urges me to give some helpful advice.

Trying to out-scissor a 190 in a P-39 in that situation will never work. The P-39 rolls rather slowly and it gets worse the slower you are. The 190 however has an excellent roll rate at that speed. You will never shake a 190 off (or any other plane for that matter) that way. On top of that, he has the firepower and ammo load to slowly spray you to death, even if he is not the best marksman. 

You should have committed to a tight flat turn once on the deck. the 190 may have been able to keep a lead for a quarter of a turn, no more. Then he only had the choice of being outturned, or pull out and resetting the fight.

 

[JunkyII]

Wrongway, I hope you don't mind some constructive criticism, but seeing a fellow P-39 driver struggle with a 190A8 on his six urges me to give some helpful advice.

Trying to out-scissor a 190 in a P-39 in that situation will never work. The P-39 rolls rather slowly and it gets worse the slower you are. The 190 however has an excellent roll rate at that speed. You will never shake a 190 off (or any other plane for that matter) that way. On top of that, he has the firepower and ammo load to slowly spray you to death, even if he is not the best marksman. 

You should have committed to a tight flat turn once on the deck. the 190 may have been able to keep a lead for a quarter of a turn, no more. Then he only had the choice of being outturned, or pull out and resetting the fight.

 

I would make it a "flat" turn, you need to off angle it so its less predictable to judge where to put rounds

[Steve]

I would make it a "flat" turn, you need to off angle it so its less predictable to judge where to put rounds

Ya, I think so too. If you are going to "commit" to a turn, make it anything but flat.

[Boozeman]

Well, the possible "off angle" depends very much on speed and power available. In that situation the P39 had neither, so keeping the turn flat is the safest option. You know, the 39 has some nasty stall habits now and then.

[Steve]

, so keeping the turn flat is the safest option.

If you say so. I just watched the film.  The 39 takes waayyyyyy to long to dispatch the 51. Also, I'm not sure why the 39 became so determined to kill the 51 when the A8 was the much bigger threat.  As far as evasives go, the 39 made no serious effort to evade the 190 in the final sequence. He basically flew in front of the a8 until he died. Some throttle work here would have been a good thing.

[JunkyII]

Well, the possible "off angle" depends very much on speed and power available. In that situation the P39 had neither, so keeping the turn flat is the safest option. You know, the 39 has some nasty stall habits now and then.

All planes have some sort of nasty stall habits, just got to get used to them. I this case Steve is actually right the fight shouldnt have got to that point in the first place and chopping some throttle going into that flat turn would have made for a quite easy overshoot

[AWwrgwy]

I agree with everything everyone said.  

I always take too long to get where I can get a shot for a kill.  Notice the spraying?

My basic strategy was, shot at who you can get behind while not getting shot by the other one.  I saw the 51 as the greater threat because I figured he would be more maneuverable and faster than the 190.

As for the whole turning part, once the elevator went, with those gun pods, low and slow, turning just didn't happen.  It really came down to poor throttle management at the end, i think.  I stayed on WEP too much and missed several opportunities to at least get the 190 to possibly overshoot.


Thanks

wrongway

[gpwurzel]

Wrongway, what on earth are you doing, admitting you screwed up..on the boards....oh, the horror 

Sorry, couldnt resist.

Wurzel

[Steve]

I agree with everything everyone said.  

My basic strategy was, shot at who you can get behind while not getting shot by the other one.  I saw the 51 as the greater threat because I figured he would be more maneuverable and faster than the 190.



Thanks

wrongway

Well my veiw was an opinion. Maybe you are just as right.

My thoughts: the 190 was closer to getting on your 6 and then WAS on your 6. The 51 is just a B pony so not particularly lethal in snap shots, especially compared to a saddled A8. I think though, had you quickly killed either one of them you could have had your way with the other.

Yup, as soon as you saw that you weren't pulling away from the A8, and that you weren't going to be any time soon, you could have chopped the throttle, used evasives and gone for the overshoot. At this point, as slow as you guys already are, if the A8 tries to slow to stay behind you  he is "all in". Since he accelerates so poorly, if he doesn't stay behind you or kill you as you try to force the overshoot, he is dead meat.

If he chooses not to be aggressive and goes up in a climb or yoyo, at least you are out from in front of his very lethal guns.  Here you are still defensive, but a step closer to a solution of your own.

 

[Boozeman]

Ah, now I see, you only had half of your elevator. That makes it a lot more difficult. 

[JunkyII]

Ah, now I see, you only had half of your elevator. That makes it a lot more difficult. 

I didnt see the elevator go, I dont know which is worse to lose an elevator or a rudder