Author Topic: Defense bands of the Reich  (Read 3735 times)

Offline Delirium

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Defense bands of the Reich
« on: January 10, 2010, 05:45:55 AM »
Looking through my books and the net, I'm finding conflicting information on the 'defense bands' the Luftwaffe used sometime after D-Day.

1. Who ordered they be used?

2. How was the color scheme selected for each Group, err Gruppe.

3. How long did the bands last? Did they see action until the end of the war in Europe?

4. Did the Allies take advantage of this to more easily identify the opponents in the air, or later on the ground, or both?

5. Did any units not use the bands and still fought in Europe?

6. Was there any opposition to the bands being used?

7. Were the bands used in response to the Allies using invasion stripes? (I know, far fetched)

Thanks in advance!
Delirium
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Retired AH Trainer (but still teach the P38 selectively)

I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline texastc316

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Re: Defense bands of the Reich
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 09:02:36 AM »
TexsTC-CO/Court Jester-Mighty 316th FS "CREEPING DEATH"  in MA/FSO

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Offline Charge

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"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."

Offline Motherland

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Re: Defense bands of the Reich
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 11:19:02 AM »
I can't answer all of your questions with certainty, however I can most of them...

2 No, it was on a Geschwader (Wing) level. That said, sometimes a Geschwaders Gruppen could be split up across different fronts, so some Gruppen may have carried them while others of the same Geschwader were wearing a different theater's colors. ex. in 1944 III/JG54 was serving RVG duty wearing the Geschwaders blue band while the rest of JG54 was in Russia wearing Eastern Front markings (yellow tail band, wing tips and patches under the engine).
3 Around mid-'43 until the end of the war.
4 Not a military tactician but I don't really know what advantage could have been had by knowing what units the aircraft came from, in combat at least... If they even knew what the bands signified in the first place :)
5 The bands were used on units employed in Reichsverteidigund duty. Once the markings came into use, aircraft not attached to RVG still carried their respective theater markings, whether they were in the Mediterranean (what was left of it) or the Eastern Front.
6 I can't answer that definitively however it seems a fairly trivial thing to protest when your country was falling apart around you, and tail bands had been in use for identification since the war's start. Many other identification systems had come into use soon before the RVG band system had come into use. The only time I've heard of of a wholesale protest of unit markings was when JG53 painted out the swastikas on the tailplanes of their 109's in response to being forced to paint a 'red band of shame' around their unit insignia by order of Hermann Goering. And that was during the BoB, much happier days than early '44.
7 If the Luftwaffe had amazing foresight... :) The bands came into widespread use very early in 1944.

Offline jdbecks

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Re: Defense bands of the Reich
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 12:56:48 PM »
one possiblity of the bands used, could be for easier identification on unknown aircraft, like in afghanistan and iraq we use to put bright flucencent orange square patchs on the roofs of our vehicles to help Aircraft ID who we were. Blue on Blue is still quite common in todays conflict, so I imagine it would have been the same, if not worse at times during WW2. So maybe the Bands were a similar idea at the time.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 12:58:41 PM by jdbecks »
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Offline csThor

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Re: Defense bands of the Reich
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 12:27:01 AM »
1. Who ordered they be used?

Actually the markings were not specified before February 1945 via an order from OKL. This was to make identification of aircraft easier, because by that time many green pilots had major troubles even keeping their crates in the air. Such recognition aids helped to form up and maintain formation.

However specific tail bands came into use much earlier, in mid-1943, with JG 1 and 11 being the units in the forefront here. The reason why these units got into using them are the same as outlined above. Other units (i.e. JG 27 with their green bands or JG 26 with black-white) followed in 1944, but none of these bands got the "official approval" before the order from OKL in 1945.

2. How was the color scheme selected for each Group, err Gruppe.

As it was said earlier this was done on Geschwader level. As I said above most units chose their own style before OKL specified it, but I don't know of any reason for this or that scheme apart from being visible and unique.

3. How long did the bands last? Did they see action until the end of the war in Europe?

Yes, although not each and every aircraft used them. I have yet to see any on any Eastern Front aircraft and many units didn't bother applying them as the end drew nearer (i.e. JG 6).

5. Did any units not use the bands and still fought in Europe?

That depended on the situation. For example JG 6 - despite being allocated a red-white-red band - didn't use it on a broad scale. The only time I saw it used was on a D-9 profile of Gerhard Barkhorn and even that application is doubtful. It probably depended on the unit commanders ...

6. Was there any opposition to the bands being used?

No idea.

7. Were the bands used in response to the Allies using invasion stripes? (I know, far fetched)

See 1. They were visual aids to help pilots get into and hold formation within the large Gefechtsverbände which were the norm for Reich Defense missions. Due to the lack of fuel training was appalling at that time and even formation flights were tricky with the large number of green pilots.

Offline dhyran

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Re: Defense bands of the Reich
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 03:28:08 AM »
Hi Del,

here are some of my fav links, very intresting but only in german

http://www150.s-ar1.arweb.at/JG53/s4a.htm


or
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/jgmark2.htm

more sources

http://www.rafiger.de/Homepage/FBMuseum/Info-JG4/Info-ST1.htm

not in opposite, but there was beside the "Band der Reichsverteidigung" also a Marking for defense of industrie sections, will take a closer look when i am back at home today

cu
dhyran

dhyran  - retired  CO  ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~        www.loose-deuce.net/

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Defense bands of the Reich
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 05:02:19 AM »
From the book "Luftwaffe Aircraft in Profile" by Sundin and Bergstrom

Dan/CorkyJr
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