Dornier 335

[FTJR]

F7F and the Meteor are the only 2 allied planes that are truly excluded on technicalities. Both were fully operational at the Squadron level in 1944. These are not "1946 would be's" or "missed it by that much" situations but airplanes that were excluded for purely political reasons. So while both have no place in scenario's both certainly would have a place in the LWA in my opinion.

What technicality excludes the Meteor?

[PJ_Godzilla]

+1 Add it. 

Just perk it like a 262.  I love the ability to fly such a diverse set of planes.  More is better.

IMHO, I don't like being inhibited from flying cool planes that actually existed.  Who cares if only 25.7 were built, or was only used in 3 squadrons, or bla bla bla.  It if existed during WWII and it actually flew - I'd like to fly it too please.

I'm totally with Slade on this. Give me Vultee P-66 and Vengeance, TBD Devastator, Curtiss Hawk, Seversky P-35, Do335, the 410, Bachem Natter, Blackburn Skua, the BP Defiant, F7F, Meteor, Faireys Battle, Barracuda, Fulmar, Albacore, and Swordfish, FW190-D11, the Me410, Do219, Do17, Bristol Blenheim, Beaufighter, Me323, He111, Ju188/388, Henschel ASMs, Re2000, Gr.55, De520, Ms406, P63, P59, Vought Vindicator, Curtiss SB2C, C46, AR240, Horten wings, Mistel, P-61, Raiden etc...

More is better. If there's flight test data, who gives a rat's rook if it flew at squad strength? Just restrict "irregulars" to a special Luft '46 arena or perk the hell out of 'em. Further, for any who might argue for a "just like real life" experience, I can only presume, then, that we're going to do only Axis v. Allies arenas and that the maps will be real-life ETO/PTO/MTO ONLY and that types and quantities of planes to be upped will be normed to some statisitcal representation of some period in the "real life" war. Where do you stop with such an argument? 

That whole argument got mooted when somebody created AHII - for computer games and real life are not one and the same. Given my death count, I count that as an advantage to AHII.

[thorsim]

the funny thing is that the arenas where this really would make a difference is usually empty ...

more guys are in WB WW2 arena on those MF nights, than are in AH AVA when it is promoted ...

considering the difference in the games usual player base i am not sure what the hullabaloo is about adding stuff here as it seems very few care about what should be fighting what historically in AH ...

not a dig just an observation ...

p-80 262 volksjager meteor horton 229 f86 mig15 grumman panther and all those other first/second gen jets would be cool ...

very cool although as zilla states it may be best in a separate arena ...

[BnZs]

I honestly think the problem with AvA is not the fact that people are uninterested in historical matchups, in and of itself....

the funny thing is that the arenas where this really would make a difference is usually empty ...

more guys are in WB WW2 arena on those MF nights, than are in AH AVA when it is promoted ...

considering the difference in the games usual player base i am not sure what the hullabaloo is about adding stuff here as it seems very few care about what should be fighting what historically in AH ...

not a dig just an observation ...

p-80 262 volksjager meteor horton 229 f86 mig15 grumman panther and all those other first/second gen jets would be cool ...

very cool although as zilla states it may be best in a separate arena ...

[Ack-Ack]

I honestly think the problem with AvA is not the fact that people are uninterested in historical matchups, in and of itself....

I agree.


ack-ack

[Krusty]

FSOs and scenarios and the millions of little snapshots would suggest otherwise.

The problem with the AvA is the atmosphere, the attitudes, and the rather weak gameplay. To varrying degrees for each, naturally.

[Karnak]

What technicality excludes the Meteor?

None, most people who post about it erroneously think it didn't see combat.

[Ack-Ack]

None, most people who post about it erroneously think it didn't see combat.

For some reason, some seem to think that chasing around V-1 bombs doesn't qualify as combat.  I'm sure if they were the ones at the controls of a Meteor tasked with blowing up a flying 1,870 lb warhead before it impacts in a civilian area, they'd wholeheartedly disagree that it wasn't combat.

To me, there are more valid reasons for adding the Meteor ahead of such planes as the A-26 and especially the B-29.

ack-ack

[Karnak]

For some reason, some seem to think that chasing around V-1 bombs doesn't qualify as combat.  I'm sure if they were the ones at the controls of a Meteor tasked with blowing up a flying 1,870 lb warhead before it impacts in a civilian area, they'd wholeheartedly disagree that it wasn't combat.

Even if they dismiss that, they can't dismiss the combat it saw on the continent.  Meteors destroyed a decent number of German aircraft on the ground, which I think one can safely assume involved being shot at.

[thorsim]

so then would you not consider the 190d and 262 in operation in the summer of 44 clearly they were killing and being shot at ...

Even if they dismiss that, they can't dismiss the combat it saw on the continent.  Meteors destroyed a decent number of German aircraft on the ground, which I think one can safely assume involved being shot at.

[MiloMorai]

so then would you not consider the 190d and 262 in operation in the summer of 44 clearly they were killing and being shot at ...

The 262 was operational in the summer of 1944 but the 190D sure wasn't.

[Karnak]

so then would you not consider the 190d and 262 in operation in the summer of 44 clearly they were killing and being shot at ...

Getting shot at isn't where the Fw190D fails the tests at that time.  It is the lack of production models in full squadron service.  Something they didn't reach until Fall of 1944.  The Meteor Mk IIIs on the continent meet all three criteria.

[PJ_Godzilla]

FSOs and scenarios and the millions of little snapshots would suggest otherwise.

The problem with the AvA is the atmosphere, the attitudes, and the rather weak gameplay. To varrying degrees for each, naturally.

Right - but most importantly, I'm typically pretty busy and only have limited time for AHII. Thus, when I log in, I want action/practice. Typically, I'll go to Orange or Blue because that's where everyone is. Sometimes I'll go to the DA. I LOVE historical play and have taken part on most of the FSOs plus some of the Saturday reenactments since joining last April. Yet, I never even consider AvA because, first and foremost of the bandwagon, nobody plays there.

The beauty of FSO and the scenarios is that you'll see plenty of action and they're something like real life. To me, arena play is practice, scenario play the actual match.

I note that last night I, for some crazy reason, flew the P-51D and got in a fight with someone who was flying a 190D (my most frequent ride). That's much more fun, to me, than fighting another P-51. I shot him down, btw, but not without getting pw'ed when he first bounced me. At that point, I jettisoned my rockets and dealt with him.

Earlier in the evening, I used a Spixteen to kill another Spit, then got shot down by a Hog - not as much fun...

[thorsim]

Getting shot at isn't where the Fw190D fails the tests at that time.  It is the lack of production models in full squadron service.  Something they didn't reach until Fall of 1944.  The Meteor Mk IIIs on the continent meet all three criteria.

semantics,

as operational testing means at least one squadron operating the factory airframes for the luftwaffe ...

no difference between that and the first squadron operating the type for the allies ...

both groups were working the operational bugaboos out of the operations for the airframe ...

call it operational testing, or operational, there is no difference to the aircrew facing the new type in combat ...

is there?

a rose by any other name is still a rose sir ...

EDIT : point of fact is that by definition the operational testing phases of the Luftwaffe meet all the same distribution criteria that HTC requires for aircraft, and unlike the meteor most of those types met enemy pilots in air combat.

[Karnak]

Thorsim,

A lone Fw190D or Do335 running away from some Allied aircraft is not the same as having the aircraft in service at squadron strength using production, not prototype, airframes.

The Ki-84 has more claim to that than any German fighter I have read about as they did do squadron level service trials with many of the 100+ prototype Ki-84s.


Also, the Meteor did tangle with Fw190s briefly, before being driven off by Spitfires.