How about the Spit Mk14 (XIV)

[Bombjack]

The XIV isn't late war. It entered squadron service in January 1944.

And Verm: Don't worry, some day you too will get over your feelings of inferiority to the Spitfire and learn to move on.  

[fd ski]

Pyro posted that AH spit 9 is F model which would make it 1942 plane.

If spitfire 14 ever gets modeled - whining will never stop.
 


------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[StSanta]

Yep, newbie pilots and field defence is what has brought the Spit score down.

Two days ago, I fought tykiyo in his Spit - and tukiyo is a *good* Spit driver. I had a slight alt advantage, and started to try to get him low on E and alt. Let me tell ya; it was not an easy fight and just as I got him relatively low, I ran outta fuel (was quite low to begin with) and had to rtb.

So, a well flown Spit sure is a match even for a 109 with a slight alt advantage. Especially it has this irritating habit of pointing its guns at you just as you want to make the kill, forcing you to break off.

Some Spit pilots are less experienced, and such pilots are easier to kill. Even so, when I meet a Spit, I exercise caution. When I meet a n1k with alt adv, or a c205, I become worried. A 38 with alt adv is also quite scary, same with 38 and F4U, but with the latter I can get away if he loses the alt advantage.

Basically, most planes scare me, since I know there might be an Ace of Experten flying them and AH has the best collection of virtual pilots I have met (never played Wb though, am sure there are some very skilled pilots there that would kick my butt even if they flew a C47, throttle idle, flaps down, gear down.

--
StSanta
II/JG2

[Pongo]

So people are saying the spit IX isnt good enough? hmmm
There are many excellent pilots in AH, and many of the top ones dont fly the spit, which hurts its score, but man it is an excellent plane..If you feel that it is inferior maybe try some of the other non allied planes for a bit.
Some of the other planes are a bit faster and you need a spit 14 to even the playing field...
Well I would rather see a late spit IX or XVI with a bubble canopy and faster merlin. maybe a chopped wings option. Then you would probably get that bit of extra speed you want without the rest of us having to figure out how to beat a spit XIV.

[Kieren]

My argument isn't even trying to figure out how to beat the XIV- I'm sure I could. What does concern me is trying to see anything other than Spit XIV's.

Truthfully, I say add it. What I guess I mostly find humorous here is anyone suggesting the Spit IX is not competitive enough with the current plane set. It would be interesting to see a bar graph depicting the best a/c in different categories. I'm sure the Spit IX ranks in the top 80% of most categories.

[Citabria]

fine bring it on.

bring on the spit XIV, yak 9U, FW190D9.

do it and you will only be shooting down fw190d9's, spitXIV,spit9, P51's, Yak9U's, 109g10s.

oh there will be the diehards of the lesser aircraft which when you see, you will say to yourself: "alright! somthing other than a spitfire!"

but thats all fine and good.

I guess it dosnt matter to anyone that more people fly the spitfire than any other plane already.

we don't need variety, we only need to model spitfires. who wants to fly anything else besides those that are diehard fans of different rides?

"she really was the perfect flying machine"

[Vermillion]

 

Pyro posted that AH spit 9 is F model which would make it 1942 plane.

Ah but Funked, you yourself pointed out that the current Spitfire in AH, is currently performing like the HF model which was the late war 1944 version wasn't it??  

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[funked]

Pongo:

"So people are saying the spit IX isnt good enough?"

Yes I'm saying that!  The Spit IX is 40-50 mph slower on the deck than planes like the Me 109G-10, P-51D, and Typhoon.  The only thing I can outrun is a Spit V.    

I'd like to have at least some chance of catching the enemy when they make a mistake, or of getting away when I make one.  Now it's just run run run.  

So I get bored and have to switch to a non-RAF plane in order to be competitive.  Which I shouldn't have to do, because the RAF had plenty of fast Spitfires when the G-10, P-51D, and other late-war-wonders were flying in the war.

"Well I would rather see a late spit IX or XVI with a bubble canopy and faster merlin. maybe a chopped wings option. Then you would probably get that bit of extra speed you want without the rest of us having to figure out how to beat a spit XIV."

Honestly, our Spit IX flies like a late Spit. IX or Spit XVI.  But if the clipped wings or bubble top would help I'm all for it.  Actually my squadron's historical fathers flew the Spit. Mk. XVI, so it would be neat to have one.  But it's so similar to the Mk. IX in capability that I'm not sure it's worth the effort to model.

Citabria

I understand that you are worried about having too many uberplanes.  In the words of the great perjurer "I feel your pain".  I'm going to start another thread on how to keep the uberplanes in check.    

That said, I think the fear of the Mk. XIV is overmodeled.  It's significantly heavier than a Mk. IX and the turning capability should suffer accordingly.  Also with that monster engine there has to be problems with trim and torque.

Think of the difference between Me 109G-2 and Me 109G-10.  That's how I expect the Mk. XIV to be different from the Mk. IX.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-01-2000).]

[Nashwan]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:
Nashwan, I just don't get it. The Spit IX is easily one of the most competitive planes in the game- in fact it's likely the best balanced of them all. You make it sound like the British have nothing good to fly.

Your continual reference to it as 1942 technology is tiresome by this time. It has already been stated before the AH Spit IX is a 1944 version. I guess I could go on to complain about the Mustang being a 1940 design, or the Lightning as a 1939 design, or the F4U as a 1940 design... you get the idea.

But, ok. Get your Spit XIV. And while you're at it give me every other 1944 plane that flew. I think I would enjoy a 262 in this case. Or my Ta152. Or my F8F.

Give it a rest.  

Sparks-

I gave up asking for the Spit 14 long ago. What I don't like is that we are told it is too Uber, yet at the same time it is compared to the TA 152, the F8F etc, all planes which came out much later. The Spit 14 entered service in Jan 44, 6 months before the prototype F8F made it's maiden flight.
If you say the Mustang is a 1940 design then the Spit IX is a 1935 design. I am not talking about when the first mark of a particular plane flew, but when that particular mark flew. The Spit IX entered service, and saw combat, in the summer of 42. It's contemporaries are the P51A, the Fw190 a4 and the 109 F, not the P51D, 109 G10 etc.
The AH spit 9 seems to have the top speed of the HF, a variant that was also introduced in 42. Sadly it doesn't have anything like the climb performance of the HF.
There were no major changes to the 9 after 42, apart from the introduction of 150 octane fuel, which we don't have. Every Spit 9 is at heart a 1942 plane.
Even the Spit V we have is not allowed a drop tank for some reason, despite the fact they were in common use.
Every single US fighter in AH dates from 44 on. Can you imagine an AH in which the US plane set consisted of the P51A, P40 and P38F?
I think the whining of the Spit dweebs would have quietened down if we had been given the Tempest to play with. Instead we got the Typhoon, which has proved useless. Can you give me any logical reason why no British plane introduced after summer 1942 is included in AH?

[mx22]

Funked:

Finally I see someone supporting me  

Pongo:

Merlin engines reached it's peak with Spit IX. So when you ask for some other Spit with Merlin engine, thare are none (There is of course Spit XVI, but it's all the same Spit IX with Packard built Merlin engine). Addition of bubble canopy and cliped wings to Spit IX won't add speed. Bubble canopy would add greater visibility and clipped wings would add roll rate, that is it. I still be stuck in situations from which I cannot escape or couldn't catch up with enemy. So it's logical to ask for at least Spit XIV, which had Griffon engine and was available for RAF units in early 1944.

mx22

[mx22]

StSanta:

How's Spit IX a match for bf109G10? Can I escape from it in SpitIX? No I can't. Can bf109 escape from me? Yes very eaily, just roll, dive, extend and live to fight another time when odds will be in your favor.

mx22

[Kieren]

Numerically, no. In fact, if you read my comments I don't directly say don't include it. What I do say is what I fear will happen if the Spit XIV is introduced. More, I was reacting to the heavy sarcasm and intimation that the Spit IX is uncompetitive- this is not true.

If funked tells me the AH Spit IX acts like a 1944 version, I tend to believe it. And c'mon, you don't really want to say that the arena won't be full of 450mph, climb-like-scalded-cat, Hispano breathing dragons? There is my one and only point- here, on the F8F, the 262... it's all the same to me.

I'll tell you what though. Let me have a Spit IX and you can have whatever plane you want (other than a Spit). We duel. I let you jump me, you let me jump you. Assuming our pilot skill is equal (how would I know?) who do you think will win the most, or more directly, who will die the most? And what will happen if I give you the Spit IX? Same thing, but in reverse.

It's true that some planes can run away from Spit IX's, but that overlooks the fact that if said plane turns to fight it is dead. Extension for some planes is the only viable tactic against the Spit IX, and this element is what is removed by the Spit XIV.

[RAM]

hehe thatsa common and well known feature of TnB planes. THey turn well but they cant run with a toejam.

I'm tired of the January 44 date of introduction for SpitXIV. SpitXIV was introduced in Late 44 (October). BEFORE THAT THEY WERE USED TO HUNT V1s!!!!!!!! And excuse me, but, for me that doesnt counts.

And if you bring SpitXIV, well do it...do it with that handling problems over 400 mph, bring it with those HUGE low speed handling problems due for the monster torque of that engine (have you tried a low speed Typhoon??? well you got the idea.)

And, of course, bring it along Fw190D9.


Ah, Mx22...STOP the Mk21 thing...or do you want us to have Ta152H? and Me262? AND GO229?      

So...stop asking because you can find more than you are searching for

 

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
Ah, Mx22...STOP the Mk21 thing...or do you want us to have Ta152H? and Me262? AND GO229?      

So...stop asking because you can find more than you are searching for

 

Hey Ram,

Hunting down V1s was of a high priority thing for RAF in 1944 and that was the sole reason XIV didn't get to front line units. But whether you like it or not, it still stands that Spitfire XIV was operational in early 1944.
I never said I'm against FW190D9, TA152 or Me262 for that matter. In contrast, I think that FW190D9 and Me262 should definatly be modeled in AH as they were the meat of LW during last year of war.
I was keeping quiet about Spit XIV for long enough. I wanted HTC to first add some planes to Russian and Japanese sets. Now that these planes would be coming in next version, I think that late war RAF fighter should be modeled too. I think I'm being fair here.

mx22

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by mx22:
Funked:

Finally I see someone supporting me  

Pongo:

Merlin engines reached it's peak with Spit IX. So when you ask for some other Spit with Merlin engine, thare are none (There is of course Spit XVI, but it's all the same Spit IX with Packard built Merlin engine). Addition of bubble canopy and cliped wings to Spit IX won't add speed. Bubble canopy would add greater visibility and clipped wings would add roll rate, that is it. I still be stuck in situations from which I cannot escape or couldn't catch up with enemy. So it's logical to ask for at least Spit XIV, which had Griffon engine and was available for RAF units in early 1944.

mx22

There were later marks of Merlin. I dont know if we have the last of them here or not.
I would say that if you cant be effecitve in a spit IX in this game...you cant be effecitve. Asking for more is just asking for a wheelchair instead of a crutch.
Listen to your complaint...
"But they can get away from me!"
hardly a reason to put a better spit in.
I just wish they would model the unreliability of the hispano cannon so that the spit(and 1c) had some real quirk.
 But oh well. You will likly get your way. The spit Xiv will come and it will be perfect. The D9 will come and it will be unstable or quirky or weak winged or some other LW foiable....
"Capt Brown said that those Gerrys where short so when you fly the d9 you have to choose between touching the ruder pedals or looking out the canopy..."