How about the Spit Mk14 (XIV)

[funked]

Kieren:  

Many vs. Many Arena Combat is determined by a far different set of attributes than One vs. One Duel Combat.  

"Turning Doesn't Win Battles" it was once said.  

Look how much it did for the Japanese.  They had planes that could out-turn anything used by the Allies, and they still got slaughtered.

 

It's true that some planes can run away from Spit IX's, but that overlooks the fact that if said plane turns to fight it is dead.

Well it's true that some planes can't turn with the Spit, but if the Spit  tries to run away IT is dead.  Trust me - there are pieces of Spit Driver splattered all over the front of my Typhoon.  

RAM

If we apply your reasoning to the Fw 190D-9, the introduction date is January 1945.  

I think Mk. XIV and D-9 should come out at the same time for AH, then we can both shut up and fly.  

[funked]

Pongo:

   

Listen to your complaint...
"But they can get away from me!"
hardly a reason to put a better spit in.

I fly for an RAF unit.  When the G-10 and Dora were in service, there were plenty of RAF aircraft (Spitfires XIV and Tempests V) that could catch either one.  Do we want a historically accurate sim or a "Luftwaffe Fantasy Land"?

     
Funked At Luftwaffe Fantasy LandŽ
"Daddy I wanna ride the slide in the shape of Herman Goering's belly, can I can I can I?"

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-01-2000).]

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:

There were later marks of Merlin. I dont know if we have the last of them here or not.
I would say that if you cant be effecitve in a spit IX in this game...you cant be effecitve. Asking for more is just asking for a wheelchair instead of a crutch.
Listen to your complaint...
"But they can get away from me!"
hardly a reason to put a better spit in.
I just wish they would model the unreliability of the hispano cannon so that the spit(and 1c) had some real quirk.
 But oh well. You will likly get your way. The spit Xiv will come and it will be perfect. The D9 will come and it will be unstable or quirky or weak winged or some other LW foiable....
"Capt Brown said that those Gerrys where short so when you fly the d9 you have to choose between touching the ruder pedals or looking out the canopy..."
   (Image removed from quote.)[/b]

Ohh yes of course, I'm so sorry. How can I demand Spit XIV when Mr. Pongo feels bad enough that 1942 Spit IX(even if it's a 1944 made plane, it's still almost same old 1942 design) can kill him in his already *inferior* late war (I'm very sorry I can't say from top of my head what year it was produced, but sure enough it was later then 1943) BF109G10, FW190A8 and soon coming FW190A5.
Let me tell you once again, if you don't like your odds, in any of those planes you can simple roll away from Spitfire and extend. I can be the best pilot you'll ever see (of course I am far from that), but I won't be able to do anything about that. So yes I want a faster Spitfire, so next time you will have to at least perform some evasive manuevers when running away from me.

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 05-01-2000).]

[Nashwan]

Kieren, read my first post. Apart from the sarcasm, is there anything you actually disagree with? The RAF introduced several new fighters after 42, Griffon powered Spits, the Tempest, Meteor, and at the end of the war the Vampire. Which of these would you like to see in AH? Even the Tempest, the least capable of these air to air, has been labled Uber by many on these boards.
There is no 1944version of the Spit IX, apart from the ones modified to use 150 octane fuel. All other Spit IXs, the F, HF or LF, were introduced in 1942.
RAM, leaving aside intercepting V-1s (sounds like "in use" to me), how about the 3 squadrons of Spit FR14s based in Normandy in July 44, and tasked to 2nd Tactical Air Force long before D-Day. Can we have some of those?  

[Kieren]

Nashwan-

No. I think you build a compelling argument for inclusion of the XIV, only I think you need to tell me how my assessment of arena play will be wrong with it. And do you think I am wrong to say the IX is competitive, even one of the best fighters in the game? I can tell you the question I hear most often is "how do I beat the Spit in this plane?"

[danish]

Funked:
"If we apply your reasoning to the Fw 190D-9, the introduction date is January 1945"

Im not sure what RAM actually is saying ;=) but the Dora was in combat mid october onwards.

danish

Edith: and yes: bring in the Spit XIV.No problm.

[This message has been edited by danish (edited 05-01-2000).]

[funked]

Wait, Vermillion called me a Nancy Boy?

I'M GONNNNNNNNAAAAAA KILLLLLLLLLLL HIMMMMMMMMMMMM!


 


Avin called me a Nancy Boy on AGW today too LOL.

[Duckwing6]

Find it funny that everybody says the Spit is so slow ... when i don't have a  speed advantage to start with and / or quite some altitude to dive (10K) they catch me in my F4U because that thing accelerates as if it has booseter rocket strapped on .. fact is that only if the SPitter lets you get to TOP speed he'll be left behind .. no how come we get away so often with our run planes you might ask now .. well Spit drivers seem to fight for angles 99% oftimes burning their E so much we CAN roll and dive away to live for another fight .. if you keep an eye on your E the Spit's one of the worst adversaries out there

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Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew

[Sparks]

HOLY CARUMBA !!!
I'm now looking for the "delete first message" button ...
Just to clear up the time Frame thingy another quote from Mr. Quills magic book (I really can recommend it):-
"I flew the first production MkXIV, RB140, in October 1943. It was a splendid and potent aeroplane. We still had some work to do to improve its longitudinal and directional characteristics, but it was powerful and it performed magnificently. The only respect in which th XIV fell short was its range.....
The first squadron deliveries were on 1 January 1944 when RB142, RB148 and RB150 were delivered to Exeter to start the re-equipment of 610 (City of Chester) Squadron."
I don't think adding it would cause any problems - after all only Nancy boys fly them  

[Nashwan]

Kieren, I am not asking for a Spit 14 (though my opinion is irelevant). What I would like, and what I asked for even before the typhoon was introduced, is the Tempest.
It is about as fast as other planes, but can't turn anything like a Spit. A balanced plane imho.
Failing that, how about a genuine Spit 9HF? Look at my thread Which Spit 9 to see the climb differences we are talking about.
What about having the proper ranger of armament options for the SPit. I can tell you now there were far more Spit 9s flying with 4x20mm than F4Us.
Re the Spitfires scores. We are told newbies drive the score down. I believe newbies also drive the score up. If you ask most people, they will tell you that the best plane of WW2 was the Mustang. How many newbies climb into a Mustang and try to turn and burn a Spit? T n B is the simplest way to fight, and the most common amongst newbies. You don't have to be very good to get kills in the Spit that way.

[This message has been edited by Nashwan (edited 05-01-2000).]

[Kieren]

The Tempest would be no better or worse than the F4U-1C. You would get no argument from me on that one, either.

Now, would the introduction of the Spit XIV, in your opinion, change the look of the arena overnight?

[SnakeEyes]

Danish:

The 190D was actually in pretty limited service until late December 1944.  Only III/JG54 was equipped with the Dora and flying operational sorties prior this point in time... and the bulk of their effort was devoted to flying top cover for Me262s taking off and landing near Aachen.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Nashwan]

Yes, imho. That's why I stopped asking for it long ago.
If we were to get the D9 etc then we I want to change my opinion again  

[Spatula]

My 2 cents (and they might not be popular looking at the thread)

BRING ON THE SPIT 14!!!!!!!!!

The fact is the g-10 is a superior ride to the spit 9, thats why the RAF improved on the 9 - ie the 14.

And as for the "all we'll see is spit 14's" argument - Good. When i see a spit and im in my pony or la-5 or 38 i know i can engage-disenage at will because the spit cant keep up. If it was a 14 then you'd have to be alot more onto it when chosing when to disengage. Why are you so afriad? Afraid that the standard (and im guilty of it) bounce a couple of times and run tactic wont be as effective anymore?

And yes, by all means bring in the D series 190 - im for that too.



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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula

"...perfect for serving"


=357th Pony Express=

[Kieren]

As would I!  

You know, I don't mind any plane being added, so long as the historic enemy's side has an answer to it. If the arena would have D9's and Spit XIV's that would bother me far less (much, MUCH less) than just D9's or just XIV's buzzing about.

I think we are in agreement here, and I do understand where you are coming from.