collisions bug exploit??

[dedalos]

[AWwrgwy]

How is it "fair" for you to take damage when you did not touch another aircraft?

If you took damage and did not touch another aircraft, IE: You Have Collided, then you are colliding with his bullets.

If you take damage and did not touch another aircraft, IE: SoAndSo Has Collided With You, then, again, you are colliding with his bullets.

Fair?
         

wrongway

[guncrasher]

look its this simple.

1 he can shoot me down even If i dont see him aiming at me because his computer says he's aiming at me. I die even If i didnt see him aiming at me.

2 his computer says he crashed into me but mine says i didnt.  he dies, I take no damage.

so why do we treat his computer saying he's pinging me (even if I didnt see it the same way) but decide that his  computer crashed but I take no damage as being two different things.  its the same thing.  due to delay i cannot see him aiming at me or crashing into me but in one situation I die and in the other i take no damage. 

we have all been killed at one time or another by a plane that went by us and is a couple of hundred yards in back of us.  even if when he went by we saw his guns were not being fired.

semp

(btw when I intentionally crash into you is if your taking town down and I need to bring somebody down anyway I can, be it ho, shoot or ram.  whateever it takes, you would do the same thing   .)

[RTHolmes]

whateever it takes, you would do the same thing

err no I wouldnt.

[Bronk]

look its this simple.

1 he can shoot me down even If i dont see him aiming at me because his computer says he's aiming at me. I die even If i didnt see him aiming at me.

2 his computer says he crashed into me but mine says i didnt.  he dies, I take no damage.

so why do we treat his computer saying he's pinging me (even if I didnt see it the same way) but decide that his  computer crashed but I take no damage as being two different things.  its the same thing.  due to delay i cannot see him aiming at me or crashing into me but in one situation I die and in the other i take no damage. 

we have all been killed at one time or another by a plane that went by us and is a couple of hundred yards in back of us.  even if when he went by we saw his guns were not being fired.

semp

(btw when I intentionally crash into you is if your taking town down and I need to bring somebody down anyway I can, be it ho, shoot or ram.  whateever it takes, you would do the same thing   .)

Well because your opponent can only fly to what he sees. That is to say I cant shoot where I think you are on your end.
It's real simple... read this slowly and let it sink in.   What you see is what you get.   Perfect solution for an imperfect internet.

[SlapShot]

If you took damage and did not touch another aircraft, IE: You Have Collided, then you are colliding with his bullets.

If you take damage and did not touch another aircraft, IE: SoAndSo Has Collided With You, then, again, you are colliding with his bullets.

Fair?
         

wrongway

Ummm ....

If you took damage and did not touch the other aircraft you will see ...

SoAndSo Has Collided With You ... but you took hits from his bullets

If you took damage and did touch the other aircraft ... you will see

You Have Collided ... and you may also have taken hits from his bullets

If you took damage and did touch the other aircraft and he touched yours ... you will see

You Have Collided
SoAndSo Has Collided With You  ... and you may also have taken hits from his bullets

[dedalos]

Well because your opponent can only fly to what he sees. That is to say I cant shoot where I think you are on your end.
It's real simple... read this slowly and let it sink in.   What you see is what you get.   Perfect solution for an imperfect internet.

And I cannot avoid if I think you don't have guns on me.  All this could be reduced by increasing the time intervals the FE and the server are publishing updates.

[SlapShot]

And I cannot avoid if I think you don't have guns on me.  All this could be reduced by increasing the time intervals the FE and the server are publishing updates.

The closer you get ... the more updates you get. I'm sure that HT probably has found the "sweet spot" as to how many updates will be viable within the operating parameters of the constantly changing internet ... that is why the FE runs "smoothing" code ... and when it's is doing it's thing, we see crazy zig zag warps.

[dedalos]

The closer you get ... the more updates you get. I'm sure that HT probably has found the "sweet spot" as to how many updates will be viable within the operating parameters of the constantly changing internet ... that is why the FE runs "smoothing" code ... and when it's is doing it's thing, we see crazy zig zag warps.

I wish that was true.  Updates go out every 250ms for the server and 250ms for the FE.  That is why we need smoothing coad.  The 30,40,50ms of internet lag don't even come into account.  When you BnZ you don't see it, but when you get bounced and watch the film after, you see tracers 30 - 50 yards behind you and hit sprites on your plane.  I am sure HT has found a sweet spot but that was the sweet spot back when it was found (5 maybe 10 years ago? i dont know the answer to that).  Maybe the new hardware can handle a little more now. 

I think from conversations on BBS a while back HT said the reason, or part of the reason, for that was to level the playing field between the guys on modem with big ping times and the guys with the fast connections.  I am sure now times most have fast connections so maybe the playing field does not need that match of a leveling.

[SlapShot]

I think from conversations on BBS a while back HT said the reason, or part of the reason, for that was to level the playing field between the guys on modem with big ping times and the guys with the fast connections.  I am sure now times most have fast connections so maybe the playing field does not need that match of a leveling.

And there you have it ... programming to the lost common denominator ... which is the correct way to handle it.

Maybe he could tweak it to be a little faster, but those who we see warping around constantly now ... imagine what they would look like if the updates were increased. Also, tweaking it higher may cause more warping than what we see now because those who are close to the "line" may just be pushed over it.

[dedalos]

And there you have it ... programming to the lost common denominator ... which is the correct way to handle it.

Maybe he could tweak it to be a little faster, but those who we see warping around constantly now ... imagine what they would look like if the updates were increased. Also, tweaking it higher may cause more warping than what we see now because those who are close to the "line" may just be pushed over it.

I don't think so on the warping.  Think of the faster rate of updates as counting from 1 to 10 by one and of the current as counting by 2s

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
2,4,6,8,10

If warps are caused by missed packets then if both cases miss one, the warp will be smaller with a faster rate since there was less position change info lost.  I agree on the least common denominator.  I am just saying, it is worth a look since things have changed since 2000.  They don't do that with the graphics so why not with the rate of updates.

[Shuffler]

look its this simple.

1 he can shoot me down even If i dont see him aiming at me because his computer says he's aiming at me. I die even If i didnt see him aiming at me.

2 his computer says he crashed into me but mine says i didnt.  he dies, I take no damage.

so why do we treat his computer saying he's pinging me (even if I didnt see it the same way) but decide that his  computer crashed but I take no damage as being two different things.  its the same thing.  due to delay i cannot see him aiming at me or crashing into me but in one situation I die and in the other i take no damage. 

we have all been killed at one time or another by a plane that went by us and is a couple of hundred yards in back of us.  even if when he went by we saw his guns were not being fired.

semp

(btw when I intentionally crash into you is if your taking town down and I need to bring somebody down anyway I can, be it ho, shoot or ram.  whateever it takes, you would do the same thing   .)

How would you do it?

[dirtdart]

Collisions and fairness.  Yes, it is the same as a hit and run.  Nobody likes flying for 20 minutes and then get some glitch related damage.  The screen does not say "you have collided" and that is it.  It says "XXX has collided with you".  If it sends that message, the other guy gets damage, period.  That can't be that hard to figure out.  If the guy is unfortunate enough to be playing on a slower connection then so be it.  He can figure out that if he gets to close he is going to collide. Change the rules and the behavior changes with it.  This crew really is a tough crowd.

If there are "smoothing code" issues, and yep, I used to play on dial up (AOL), then maybe now is the time for fixing some of the code.  Not being a professed code writer, I have no clue what an undertaking that may be.  I do know as a client that having these "glitches" (glitch to me = things that seem hokey like a bush flipping a Tiger or the 7.7mm pintle gun PWing an IL-2 pilot from the front) is becoming tiresome over time. This game is the best thing out there, for now.  I thought it was on us clients to articulate things that alter our perception of this game as the peak of the on-line gaming experience.  Some of you are set on defending points which many of us find unpalatable instead of acknowledging there is ostensibly room for improvement.   I have no idea who moved this post from the "bugs" to the "general discussion".  

[dedalos]

How would you do it?

Faster updates = less discrepancy between the two FEs

[dedalos]

It is still not clicking lol.  It is not the slower connection.  It is made this way.  You ever take off from a CV and watch a plane land next you?  Only he is about 50 yards out and over the water?  This is not net lag.  It is how the game is made.  A faster update rate may not help collisions match (although it will increase the cases where both guys see it) but it will help on the getting shot from impossible angles future