for the new players

[Sonicblu]

Those we my words Sonic, not his. I was being sarcastic in my interpretation of his comments. But I stand behind my version as being his true feelings. 

oops srry there

<S>

[BaldEagl]

I know he's trying to say "you guys shouldn't be whining and trying to tell others how to fly"

Really?

For the new players...

If you can kill the guy I'm on faster than me go ahead.

I'll salute you and carry on the mission.

Keep up the good work!

It sounds to me like he absolutely advocates jumping into someone elses fight with no regard for his team mates.

How you get "you guys shouldn't be whining and trying to tell others how to fly"  out of that I'm not sure.

[Noah17]

I've flown towards a 1v1 fight several times only to have the friendly tell me "It's ok I got this one" so I backed off...... only to be killed by the guy he was supposed to be taking care of either while landing or engaging another con afterwards.

I don't call any one a  kill stealer. If they could get the kill before me it's because they were faster, a better shot, in a better position or, a better pilot than me.
It's no problem at all so long as they don't park themselves on the hub of my prop doing it.

If the con is still flying he's fair game as far as I'm concerned. Everything else is just useless panzy whining!
 

[Reaper90]

How you get "you guys shouldn't be whining and trying to tell others how to fly"  out of that I'm not sure.

Sounds pretty dumb right? Yup. That's exactly how you guys sound when we read your posts on stuff like this. Make all the silly little rules you want to try to get people to fly the way you think they should. It'll never work. You don't have that power. Never did. Never will.

perhaps you missed that part?

[Nemisis]

I think you're partly right, but suspect I'm partly right in my impression of his attitude as well. I know he's trying to say "you guys shouldn't be whining and trying to tell others how to fly," and to an extent he's right... we all have better things to worry about really. But as a person who just 10 months ago was a totally green newb, I think I can say that any and all guidance from those who have been around a while is appreciated by those whom are new. The OP wasn't being an arse. Maybe only 5% of the "newbs" who read the "hint hint, here's a list of things to keep in mind if you want people not to despise your presence" list will take it to heart. But to me that's a 5% improvement over where we could have been. Even if he or you feel it's a lot of whining and we "look stupid" for trying to instill a little bit of good gamesmanship into whomever will listen, if it even gets one player to think twice about doing something crappy, I say it is worth it.

No one said we're better than anybody, but there is a better way to conduct oneself. I disagree that calling out a person will automatically cause that person to only behave worse, and a lot of other guys here disagree as well.... because in many cases it is why we are the way we are.

I by no means feel that way, you misunderstand me. All I'm saying is that people look stupid when they act as if they have the right to give orders, based soley on time spen in a video game. I mean come on, it IS a game. It doesn't even guarentee you would be a good pilot in real life.

As to you disagreeing with my 'quote' about the uncooperative newb,

It really applies only to newbs who ARE uncooperative. I remember this guy whos name was just a bunch of numbers, and all he did was whine, and complain when people politely asked him to stop HO'ing and kill stealing. And when some people TOLD him to stop on the grounds that they haplayed longer, and were therfore better, he just got pissed and wouldn't shut up.

Eagle, I don't know about others, but I don't really get my oppinion that more expirenced players look stupid when the ORDER others to fly like them from that post. I'm fine with asking, but giving orders based on the grounds that you spent more time online makes you look stupid.

Same with people who say "thanks for the check 6 guys" (incase you cant tell, they were sarcastic when talking). You are responsible for YOUR 6, not mine, just as I'm not responsible for yours.

It gets annoying when orders and complaints from unreasonable expectations start flying around on VOX and on country text.

[Shuffler]

Where do you guys find all these rules?

I first started online flight sims in the late 80's with Airwarrior on GEnie. It had simple black and white wireframe graphics, and cost a arm & a leg to play. Yes we did alot of 1 vs. 1 fighting.... not because we wanted to. Most nights there was to few of us online to do anything but that. We dreamed of the day that we would have 100's of players online, tons of planes, tanks, ships that moved, large maps to conquer, and we wanted to play WAR!

As the games got better, more "n00bs" came, and the rule became, if you're looking for a one on one don't look for it in the Main Arenas, in AW we jump into "Dueling mode" other sims you go to the Dueling Arenas. That's what they are for...... and called "Dueling Arena". Is it bad form to fly into someones line of fire?... yes. If i am flying along and see two planes in a fight and it looks look the guy on my side is winning. Do I jump in? maybe not. If it looks like he is not winning? Do I jump in? If I look around and see no "bad guys" that may jump me, then odd are yes.

Do I care if they wanted my help?....... not at all, we are in the main Arena.

Cavalry

It started way before WWII.. even before the war between the states.

There are those with class and those without. It is up to each to decide where they fall.

[Reaper90]

I by no means feel that way, you misunderstand me. All I'm saying is that people look stupid when they act as if they have the right to give orders, based soley on time spen in a video game. I mean come on, it IS a game. It doesn't even guarentee you would be a good pilot in real life.

I don't think the purpose of this thread was to give anyone "orders." My interjections certainly weren't meant that way, and I don't see any one single post here ordering anyone to behave in any manner. What I do see are suggestions and recommendations.

As to you disagreeing with my 'quote' about the uncooperative newb,

It really applies only to newbs who ARE uncooperative. I remember this guy whos name was just a bunch of numbers, and all he did was whine, and complain when people politely asked him to stop HO'ing and kill stealing. And when some people TOLD him to stop on the grounds that they haplayed longer, and were therfore better, he just got pissed and wouldn't shut up.

Some you will never reach, for sure. But it's worth it for those that you do.

Eagle, I don't know about others, but I don't really get my oppinion that more expirenced players look stupid when the ORDER others to fly like them from that post. I'm fine with asking, but giving orders based on the grounds that you spent more time online makes you look stupid.

Same with people who say "thanks for the check 6 guys" (incase you cant tell, they were sarcastic when talking). You are responsible for YOUR 6, not mine, just as I'm not responsible for yours.

It gets annoying when orders and complaints from unreasonable expectations start flying around on VOX and on country text.

Agreed 100%. Orders are one thing. Help and assistance in "seeing the light" are different altogether. 

[Nemisis]

I'm not implying that anyone ordered anyone in this thread, all I'm saying is that while I don't feel that way about suggestions and discussions (as long as they're not in the game), I do feel that ordering people makes you look stupid. I did this to avoid making a clarifying post, but I see now that by not clearly explaining what I meant, I just shot myself in the foot along those lines.

[dhart]

Here is my take on air combat "participation" by others:

If 1 is engaging 1, observe but do not interfere.

Only after friendly has been shot down can you engage.

If 1 is engaging 2, take bead on the "outside interference", do not engage the same enemy!

If friendly has enmy on tail, contact to state your intention on engaging.

If you have 2 or 3 friendlies on an enmy, DO NOT THINK ABOUT ENGAGING! I have seen way too many people gang up on someone, (20 to 1), just to fight over the kill.

Always call your kills if possible. After a kill has been called, leave the downed plane alone! You are wasting bullets and making enemies by trying to steal a kill.

As I said, these are a few of my rules I go by.

[Reaper90]

Here is my take on air combat "participation" by others:

If 1 is engaging 1, observe but do not interfere.

Only after friendly has been shot down can you engage.

If 1 is engaging 2, take bead on the "outside interference", do not engage the same enemy!

If friendly has enmy on tail, contact to state your intention on engaging.

If you have 2 or 3 friendlies on an enmy, DO NOT THINK ABOUT ENGAGING! I have seen way too many people gang up on someone, (20 to 1), just to fight over the kill.

Always call your kills if possible. After a kill has been called, leave the downed plane alone! You are wasting bullets and making enemies by trying to steal a kill.

As I said, these are a few of my rules I go by.

Agreed 110%. The only thing I would add is "massive furball scenerio: Multiple cons and multiple friendlies" (such as in base defense where there are lots of defenders and lots of bad guys all cramming themselves into that same 10 cubic feet of airspace) - ALL red icons are fair game.

[kilo2]

Why are you and blooz so intent on proving that what we say is worthless? What is your problem with people trying to put out something positive?

There is NOTHING confusing about what we are saying...you just can't or don't want to understand.

I think you are just a pessimist who would rather come up with 100 reasons why something can't be done instead one GOOD reason why it can be done.

If we "sway some to the path of righteousness" then it will be well worth it. Because we can't save them all is not a reason not to save some of them.

Did not say it was worthless. I even agreed you will sway some. I was just saying if you have a good fight and someone else swoops in and "steals" the kill its still a good fight. Some of you, as I said before say its all about the fight but then complain when some one steals your kill that's confusing.

I am being REALISTIC not PESSIMISTIC.

I am just get tired of posts from guys who think they hold the AH bible and that gives them the right to pass judgment on others. By all means carry on your crusade to save the unwashed masses of AH.

IMO its all fair and if you kill shoot yourself its your own fault.

[SkyRock]

IMO its all fair and if you kill shoot yourself its your own fault.

Well, you were making sense, then it just sounded like you have a pre-concieved notion of some of the bible carrying, premadonna sticks and oppose them simply on the basis you can't control your envy of their status... to the point of making statements like the one quoted here... same as BendoverBlooz.. just wrong on all fronts... how can you justify blaming a fella, if he worked to get on a guys 6, then as he started to shoot the fella, a friendly dipped down from his perch to shamelessly steal the kill..and in the process, the theif kills his own teamate?  Communicating that you are going to dip down and steal the kill, would be much more courteous....being that the theif at least allows the fighter the chance to avoid KS.  Seems anyone would agree that communicating to a friendly what your intentions are when entering his 1 vs 1, would be the best way to go about it... as far as the team goes... Communication between friendlies in air combat is a very crucial part of overall SA....   yet, you and bendover seem to be making this about Top Dogs ordering around and looking down their noses at Low Dogs.... what gives? 

Ankle-humping should be left to the MA's and not used as an debate strategy. 


 

[kilo2]

Well, you were making sense, then it just sounded like you have a pre-concieved notion of some of the bible carrying, premadonna sticks and oppose them simply on the basis you can't control your envy of their status... to the point of making statements like the one quoted here... same as BendoverBlooz.. just wrong on all fronts... how can you justify blaming a fella, if he worked to get on a guys 6, then as he started to shoot the fella, a friendly dipped down from his perch to shamelessly steal the kill..and in the process, the theif kills his own teamate?  Communicating that you are going to dip down and steal the kill, would be much more courteous....being that the theif at least allows the fighter the chance to avoid KS.  Seems anyone would agree that communicating to a friendly what your intentions are when entering his 1 vs 1, would be the best way to go about it... as far as the team goes... Communication between friendlies in air combat is a very crucial part of overall SA....   yet, you and bendover seem to be making this about Top Dogs ordering around and looking down their noses at Low Dogs.... what gives? 

Ankle-humping should be left to the MA's and not used as an debate strategy. 


 

When someone disagrees with you its not ankle humping. When you kill shoot yourself it is your fault. And its how you write something that makes it seem like your talking down to people.

[FireDrgn]

Its your own fault that someone dives in front of you? The only reason you can even attempt to throw that slop on us is because killshooter is turned on.  The guy taking the bullets should be the one going to the tower.

<S>  killshooter is on to babysit those that would purposely shoot their own guys.

[Nemisis]

yeah, I'm with FireDrgn. There's no denying that some newbs would attempt to shoot down a friendly that took what they saw as "their kill" when they had no hope of landing a single hit.

I do agree that if you killshoot yourself, its your fault. Same as its your fault you got shot down, its not someone elses for not getting the spit off your 6, it yours for getting into a turn fight with a spit while in a 190D. While its not your fault if some newb dives infront of you, it is your fault if you keep firing with him infront of you. A few pings from .50's shouldn't be enough to tower yourself, so that means you have time to see his green icon, and take your finger off the triger.