Pe - 8 Russian Heavy

[Stoney]

No worse than the P-47M operated by what...a single squadron?

I think Krusty would argue with anything that isn't 100% pure all american apple pie super duper yee-haw by gawd made in the good ole USofA.

A single group of 3 squadrons, and the most successful fighter group in the ETO.

And, Krusty is probably one of the bigger proponents I know of for including a broad spectrum of all aircraft, as long as they are relevant.  The Pe-8, while perhaps relevant to VVS history buffs, isn't relevant to this game, especially before the Pe-2, for example, is added to the Russian plane set.

[gyrene81]

A single group of 3 squadrons, and the most successful fighter group in the ETO.

And here I thought those squadrons gained most of their success in earlier model P-47's, not just the 800 total production M models.

I'd rather see the Pe-2 or Pe-3 before the Pe-8/TB-7 but still, it has merit in that is was used by the Soviet air force early in the war on long range strategic missions...it wasn't relegated to VIP transport until after the war...and it wasn't pulled off the front lines until 1944.

Consider it another slow moving target for the Spixteen.

[Krusty]

Oakranger:

Think diversity krusty.

"I'll handle this one... I believe Diversity was a large wooden sailing ship used during the Civil War..."

Gyrene: That's not even a valid comparison, P-47M vs Pe-8. You might as well compare the Martin B-10 with the Bristol Blenheim. Both about comparable in terms of time frames, in terms of capabilities, but one saw almost no action what-so-ever, and the other saw tons. In this case the Pe-8 was used to ferry diplomats to special meetings, due to its super long range (and no doubt it's defensive guns).


Once AH properly models "Diplomats" then let's talk about it, eh? 


P.S. Only 100 P-47Ms made, and probably a number of them written off due to the engine failures and teething problems. Still saw a lot of action, though.

[TwinTail]

Pe-8 with 5000kg bomb like in IL2 Sturmovik Game  Ultamite Russian block buster. In IL2 Sturmovik it looks like a damn nuke, mushroom cloud and all. TT

[TwinTail]

JK     

[Ghosth]

Krusty, as much as many of you seem to "hate" giving anything to scenario designers.

How you would you like to try to design and run a scenario which is even and well balanced.
When one side has no bomber capable of hauling more than 1k of ord. And the other side has multiple bombers capable of hauling 6, 8, and up to 14k. Not to mention Fighters that can carry more ord than the other sides bombers.

Its Impossible!

Plainly put the axis side has at least reasonable  equality with fighters, enough to be able to play.
But it sorely lacks that same equality with bombers.

Russians have the il2 which really is more of a ground attack plane than a true bomber.
Japanese have D3a, and B5n neither of which can haul as much as an F4u.
Plus the Ki-67 which while a good bomber, is a "light" bomber at best.

So should we just petition the CM team to go on strike until they get some of the planes they need? Shut down all the events, tell everyone to go home, we can't do it with what we have!
Or is it perhaps better to keep begging HTC for Axis bombers hoping they'll get the message?

[The Grinch]

1+

[Stoney]

Krusty, as much as many of you seem to "hate" giving anything to scenario designers.

How you would you like to try to design and run a scenario which is even and well balanced.
When one side has no bomber capable of hauling more than 1k of ord. And the other side has multiple bombers capable of hauling 6, 8, and up to 14k. Not to mention Fighters that can carry more ord than the other sides bombers.

Its Impossible!

Plainly put the axis side has at least reasonable  equality with fighters, enough to be able to play.
But it sorely lacks that same equality with bombers.

Russians have the il2 which really is more of a ground attack plane than a true bomber.
Japanese have D3a, and B5n neither of which can haul as much as an F4u.
Plus the Ki-67 which while a good bomber, is a "light" bomber at best.

So should we just petition the CM team to go on strike until they get some of the planes they need? Shut down all the events, tell everyone to go home, we can't do it with what we have!
Or is it perhaps better to keep begging HTC for Axis bombers hoping they'll get the message?

There's no sense in creating "balance" through historically insignificant aircraft.  The Russians never used heavy bombers in a historically significant manner; nor did the Japanese.

[JunkyII]

The MA could use some more Heavy bombers for people who like to fly only 1 side, I flew luft for the half of this tour I was playing but then I had to jump in a B24 because the JU88 was too slow,cant climb and has horrible protection.

Id like to see more people stop just thinking about events and think more about where most of the players spend their game time


just my 2 cents

[Stoney]

...the JU88 was too slow,cant climb and has horrible protection.

So, instead, you'd rather climb in a Pe-8.  A bomber that was slower, carried roughly the same payload, and had a paucity of defensive armament?

This thing would see only nostalgic use in the MA.

[gyrene81]

Gyrene: That's not even a valid comparison, P-47M vs Pe-8. You might as well compare the Martin B-10 with the Bristol Blenheim. Both about comparable in terms of time frames, in terms of capabilities, but one saw almost no action what-so-ever, and the other saw tons. In this case the Pe-8 was used to ferry diplomats to special meetings, due to its super long range (and no doubt it's defensive guns).

Once AH properly models "Diplomats" then let's talk about it, eh?  

P.S. Only 100 P-47Ms made, and probably a number of them written off due to the engine failures and teething problems. Still saw a lot of action, though.

The Russians never used heavy bombers in a historically significant manner; nor did the Japanese.

I guess it depends on whose side of the fence you're looking from. From the WWII Russian standpoint the Pe-8 was used in a politically psychological significant manner during a time when heroic acts were used for war time propaganda to boost Russian morale. True, they weren't used to the extent that the U.S./British bombers were used but, they were used to strike German targets deep in German held territory, including Berlin from 1941 to 1944. They started in flights of 6 to 8 and went as high as 4 or 5 squadrons on a single mission flying from 30 to 130 sorties a month or more. When they were pulled off the front lines due to what they considered heavy losses, they were assigned to homeland defense and other roles.

As far as the Russian Stalin regime was concerned, until Germany was beaten...any effort was "significant"...so to dismiss even the lowly Pe-8 as "historically insignificant" is wrong since it obviously made enough of a difference to Stalin to continue production of about 8 per month throughout the war.





Amazing what can be learned by reading more than 1 source...

[JunkyII]

So, instead, you'd rather climb in a Pe-8.  A bomber that was slower, carried roughly the same payload, and had a paucity of defensive armament?

This thing would see only nostalgic use in the MA.

You didnt read most post right, some people like JG11 only fly a certain countries aircraft, Shisengumi only flies Japs, we only have 5(?) russian aircraft....IMO the aircraft that should get added to the game should be made to fit in better where most of the players play most of the time.......Late War MA

[warphoenix]

+1 I fell bad for those russian plane fliers in AH they only have 2 aircraft to fly!!! and a B-17 rival would be awsome!(I can't fly B-17s because my comp freezes up when I select the spawn point on the B-17)

[waystin2]

JU88 was too slow,cant climb and

BLASPHEMY! 

[warphoenix]

+1 I fell bad for those russian plane fliers in AH they only have 2 aircraft to fly!!! and a B-17 rival would be awsome!(I can't fly B-17s because my comp freezes up when I select the spawn point on the B-17)

woops I just realized that the russians don't have 2 aircraft thats the italians but staill the rusian's only have 1 bomber and those bomber nuts would be exstatic about the new bomber