First flight for the Russian "F-22"

[Die Hard]

Russian airforce weaponry surpassed Germany in 1944

Really? I didn't know the Russians had jet fighters and jet bombers in 1944.

[Nilsen]

Alot of the tank technology, planes and missiles means little at all. Robust and good Command & Control, surveilance and training means the most. The US would still have slaughtered Iraq even if the Iraqi military had the abrams, missiles planes and the US had the iraqi equipment IF the US had the same Command, control, doctrine and training as it had in real life. Iraq may have put up a better fight, but not my much. Night vision is also a big factor but as far as i know the russians have pretty good systems.


My opinion anyway.

[321BAR]

Really? I didn't know the Russians had jet fighters and jet bombers in 1944.

notice that these were in limited supply and also used incorrectly mostly? Hitler used the 262 as a bomber in most models and the Ar234 became a scout plane

[Lusche]

notice that these were in limited supply and also used incorrectly mostly? Hitler used the 262 as a bomber in most models and the Ar234 became a scout plane

The Arado wasn't becoming a scout plane - it was designed as being one from the start. And as a recon plane, it was a very valuable addition, being able to fly recon sorties where no other Luftwaffe could in '45. If you only have a few planes available, this can be much more valuable than a few dropped bombs.


/thread hijack off

[321BAR]

The Arado wasn't becoming a scout plane - it was designed as being one from the start. And as a recon plane, it was a very valuable addition, being able to fly recon sorties where no other Luftwaffe could in '45. If you only have a few planes available, this can be much more valuable than a few dropped bombs.


/thread hijack off

ahh again lusche you hit us with your valuable information <S>
but still, the Russians had the tech advantage by the end of the war. YES the germans had the 262 but look at the numbers... the 262 was not built in a large enough group or flown by many veterans to actually be able to affect any outcome...

[Die Hard]

321BAR, why don't you just google some of these points you try to make. The info is out there. No, the Russians did not have better planes than the Germans at any point of the war. Some of the VVS' planes were on-par with the German rivals, like the La-5/7, but the 109 and 190 always had the advantage of better performance at altitude, better cockpit ergonomics, instrumentation and automation. The Russians were also tactically naive, and it really isn't surprising that the German aces could rack up hundreds of kills each on the east front. The 190 Dora was so much better than what the VVS had that they stared using captured Doras themselves.

[Die Hard]

the 262 was not built in a large enough group or flown by many veterans to actually be able to affect any outcome...

Noting short of a nuclear bomb could affect the outcome by 1944. And more 262s were made during the war than La-7s. The Germans produced 1,430 Me 262s before the war ended and they were operational from April 1944 with the first recorded kill (a Mosquito) in July.

[indy007]

Night vision is also a big factor but as far as i know the russians have pretty good systems.


My opinion anyway.

I've used US gen 3 and russian nvg side by side. The US made gear is far superior fwiw. It's also about deploying that gear, and training troops to properly use it and care for it. Not easy on a budget army.

[Nilsen]

I've used US gen 3 and russian nvg side by side. The US made gear is far superior fwiw. It's also about deploying that gear, and training troops to properly use it and care for it. Not easy on a budget army.

and that was my point 

When people put this and that tank etc up against what the other side has on paper it is useless statistics. Its not the gear, but how you employ it and how well informed and trained the operators are.

[indy007]

they'll add those on... just wait for it. It's the first public flight... They'll steal those ideas just like they did the rest of the F-22

It doesn't quite work like that. Stealth has to be designed from the outset. It's not just some kit you can apply. This thing will likely be better than the Eurofighter, but inferior in RCS to a -35 or -22.

[63tb]

Wouldn't a Russian invasion face difficulties in that western europe becomes a natural choke point the further they'd go? The traffic jam would be a incredible, especially if there were Chinese troops/equipment as well. Sounds like a target rich environment.

63tb

[indy007]

Wouldn't a Russian invasion face difficulties in that western europe becomes a natural choke point the further they'd go? The traffic jam would be a incredible, especially if there were Chinese troops/equipment as well. Sounds like a target rich environment.

63tb

Depends on the era. In the 80s, NATO air forces were projected to last about 3 days, and the means to stop massive numbers of mechanized infantry divisions at the Fulda Gap didn't really exist.

[321BAR]

Noting short of a nuclear bomb could affect the outcome by 1944. And more 262s were made during the war than La-7s. The Germans produced 1,430 Me 262s before the war ended and they were operational from April 1944 with the first recorded kill (a Mosquito) in July.

alright die hard i concede sir. sometimes i try to use brainpower over the use of websites to test my knowledge limits and to keep myself going...

[Die Hard]

I would suggest using your brainpower to acquire more knowledge. If I may ask a personal question; I get the impression that you are a child or a teenager, am I correct?

[Tango]

and that was my point 

When people put this and that tank etc up against what the other side has on paper it is useless statistics. Its not the gear, but how you employ it and how well informed and trained the operators are.

The Israelis proved that in the 6 Day War.

Yitzhak Rabin - "Our airmen, who struck the enemies' planes so accurately that no one in the world understands how it was done and people seek technological explanations or secret weapons; our armored troops who beat the enemy even when their equipment was inferior to his; our soldiers in all other branches...who overcame our enemies everywhere, despite the latter's superior numbers and fortifications-all these revealed not only coolness and courage in the battle but...an understanding that only their personal stand against the greatest dangers would achieve victory for their country and for their families, and that if victory was not theirs the alternative was annihilation."