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Author Topic: Ju87 attcking B-17?  (Read 2974 times)

Offline oakranger

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Ju87 attcking B-17?
« on: January 31, 2010, 06:15:12 PM »
Just read about the 303rd BG (H) Combat Mission No. 98 to Oschersleben, Germany.  On page 7 half way down, it they talk about the first wave of enemy planes consist of 109, 190, 110, Ju 88 and Ju 87.  There is one little mention of the Ju 87 made a attacks on the bombers.  Would they be using the Ju-87 D-3 modified Stuka armed with two Rheinmetall-Borsig 37mm (BK) Flak

http://303rdbg.com/missionreports/098.pdf
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 06:19:34 PM by oakranger »
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Oaktree

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Offline Lusche

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 06:35:32 PM »
 A Ju-87G-1 with it's underwing cannon pods is severely lacking the speed to intercept and engage B17's at altitude...
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Offline curry1

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 06:37:24 PM »
Quote from: Lusche on January 31, 2010, 06:35:32 PM
A Ju-87G-1 with it's underwing cannon pods is severely lacking the speed to intercept and engage B17's at altitude...

HO!
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 06:40:54 PM »
Quote from: curry1 on January 31, 2010, 06:37:24 PM
HO!

LOL

Unless this is a incorrect report, some of the crew state that Ju 87 attacking mode.  Nothing specific how they where attacking.
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Oaktree

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Offline curry1

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2010, 08:27:00 PM »
Quote from: Lusche on January 31, 2010, 06:35:32 PM
A Ju-87G-1 with it's underwing cannon pods is severely lacking the speed to intercept and engage B17's at altitude...

Or RATO!
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Offline pervert

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2010, 10:13:37 PM »
I've shot down plenty of bombers in a stuka with the rear gun, usually they start chasing me and I can't out run them  :lol
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 10:29:01 PM »
Quote from: pervert on January 31, 2010, 10:13:37 PM
I've shot down plenty of bombers in a stuka with the rear gun, usually they start chasing me and I can't out run them  :lol

Thats Great.  But we are talking about the real life event.
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Oaktree

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Offline Charge

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2010, 02:57:30 AM »
Rudel claimed an IL-2 shot down with 37mm cannons on eastern front. However, as Lusche said Ju87 simply does not have speed nor has it altitude performance to make such attack. In fact Ju87 cannot catch B17 at any altitude -especially not with under-wing guns which was, due to excess drag, even slower than normal D model...

Of course they could have climbed to altitude above bombers and then just dive on them...but then again, looking at the speed/alt performance chart, maybe not...  ;)

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Offline Angus

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 09:57:03 AM »
The only way a Ju87 would engage a B17 would be a random account with a wounded straggler at low alt.
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2010, 10:34:27 AM »
from the report, the crew believe they where waiting for them.  The bombers where level at 20,000 ft, a bit high for the Ju 87.  However, the ceiling service for the Ju 87 is 26,000 ft.  I am sure they could not get above 20,000 ft but there could have been that chance that they did.  as soon as they saw them coming, It would be a one pass at them and i am sure it would have been a HO pass to.  

Quote from: Angus on February 01, 2010, 09:57:03 AM
The only way a Ju87 would engage a B17 would be a random account with a wounded straggler at low alt.

there was nothing in the report of that. 
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Oaktree

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Offline pervert

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2010, 10:36:37 AM »
Quote from: oakranger on January 31, 2010, 10:29:01 PM
Thats Great.  But we are talking about the real life event.

I don't care  :rolleyes:
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 06:20:53 PM »
Quote from: pervert on February 01, 2010, 10:36:37 AM
I don't care  :rolleyes:

Well, then don't respond to this thread.
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Oaktree

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Offline E25280

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2010, 07:29:23 PM »
Quote from: Lusche on January 31, 2010, 06:35:32 PM
A Ju-87G-1 with it's underwing cannon pods is severely lacking the speed to intercept and engage B17's at altitude...
Well, without the pods, the JU-87 in the game can reach 225mph at 20K feet if I read the charts correctly.

Unlike AH, real life B-17s on a mission would probably be cruising at around 180 mph to conserve fuel / improve range.  And they wouldn't vary that speed when attacked, since the tight formations / massed firepower was what they were relying on for defense.

So it is more feasible than one would think.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2010, 03:09:35 PM »
A number of later Ju87s also had 2x 20mm cannons in the wings.
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Ju87 attcking B-17?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2010, 05:29:46 PM »
Quote from: E25280 on February 01, 2010, 07:29:23 PM
Well, without the pods, the JU-87 in the game can reach 225mph at 20K feet if I read the charts correctly.

Unlike AH, real life B-17s on a mission would probably be cruising at around 180 mph to conserve fuel / improve range.  And they wouldn't vary that speed when attacked, since the tight formations / massed firepower was what they were relying on for defense.

So it is more feasible than one would think.

I betting that the JU 87 where 2-3 k higher then the bombers, waiting for their arrival.  As soon as they see the bombers, the Ju 87 diver for them in a HO pass.  Kind like, "you have only one pass" attempt. 
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Oaktree

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