Ju87 attcking B-17?

[oakranger]

Looking at the report . . . the only eyewitness reference to the JU-87 is in the part quoted above, from a radio operator.  No gunner claims, no other eyewitness reports of JU-87s.  And he describes the JU-87 as a "Stacey".  I have never heard of this term before.  

My take is that he was likely mistaken, but because the radio operator reported seeing JU-87 "Stacey dive bombers", it made it into the summary that JU-87s were present.

The claim is dubious IMO.

Vern L. Moncur is a Pilot. 

[E25280]

Vern L. Moncur is a Pilot. 

Yes, and the heading before the paragraph mentioning the JU-87s says:

Comment from James S. Andrus, Moncur's Radio Operator

[oakranger]

here is 303rd BG web site. 

http://www.303rdbg.com/

[Ack-Ack]

Looking at the report . . . the only eyewitness reference to the JU-87 is in the part quoted above, from a radio operator.  No gunner claims, no other eyewitness reports of JU-87s.  And he describes the JU-87 as a "Stacey".  I have never heard of this term before.  

My take is that he was likely mistaken, but because the radio operator reported seeing JU-87 "Stacey dive bombers", it made it into the summary that JU-87s were present.

The claim is dubious IMO.

Never heard the Stuka referred to as a Stacey either, I think the radio operator was using Stacey in the phonetic to represent the S in Stuka. 

I still agree with you that the event described probably didn't happen and the some type of Luftwaffe plane was misidentified as a Stuka.  With the slow speed and relatively poor handling of the Stuka, especially at 20,000ft, you would have thought there would be at least some B-17 gunner reports of shooting down one or two Stukas but there isn't anything at all.  Even in the other crew reports from that mission, none report seeing Ju 87s, only that one bomber. 

I would like to see more verifiable evidence other than 'comments from the radio operator'.

ack-ack

[oakranger]

Never heard the Stuka referred to as a Stacey either, I think the radio operator was using Stacey in the phonetic to represent the S in Stuka. 

I still agree with you that the event described probably didn't happen and the some type of Luftwaffe plane was misidentified as a Stuka.  With the slow speed and relatively poor handling of the Stuka, especially at 20,000ft, you would have thought there would be at least some B-17 gunner reports of shooting down one or two Stukas but there isn't anything at all.  Even in the other crew reports from that mission, none report seeing Ju 87s, only that one bomber. 

I would like to see more verifiable evidence other than 'comments from the radio operator'.

ack-ack

There are two witness report on the JU 87.

[E25280]

There are two witness report on the JU 87.

Where is the other one, then?

[Vulcan]

Didn't Stuka also refer to the JU-88? As in the Stuka was a generic term for dive bombers, both JU-87 and JU-88?

[Ack-Ack]

Not sure, at least I've never read the dive bomber varient of the Ju 88 being referred to as a "Stuka" but I have read in various publications that the C varient was given the generic name for heavy fighters "Zerstörer".  So it may have been that the dive bombing varient was also referred to as "Stuka" in some circles.


ack-ack

[Charge]

"Didn't Stuka also refer to the JU-88?"

Yes. Ju88 was the big Stuka and Ju87 was the little Stuka. Ju88 was build as a divebomber which it could do with StuVi divebomb sight. Without the weight from structural requirement to withstand the pull-up forces it would have been a very fast medium bomber. Even with the structural strength it had 80 degree dives were eventually prohibited because the wings could not take the stress.

-C+

[Wmaker]

Yeh, Stuka is an acronym that comes from the word Sturzkampfflugzeug which means "divebomber" in english. Ju-88 and Ju-87 were both divebombers while at the same time, depending on the equipment on board, Ju-88 could also level bomb.

[Angus]

Never heard the allies use "Stuka" for anything but the JU87.
That Heinkel theory is perhaps worth a look. It is a much faster aircraft than the Stuka, and was around till 1944, mainly being used for the training role. It looks like this: