Which is a better plane?

[sonic1234]

Which is a better plane, the 109 or the 190. Thank You

109 is more flexible and manuverable and good for low alt. 190 has more firepower and better speeds at high alts.

[Ack-Ack]

If you're talking flat turns which are not ideal for 190s, 190-A5 in toonville you can out turn a P-40B for a short time...a 109G or K series...a Tempest in a left hand turn...P-47s.

The 190-A8 doesn't turn well at all...but once in a while you get lucky, just don't hang it in a flat turn.

The 190-D9 can hang with P-51D, P-47, P-38, Tempest, Typhoon.

Of course as Bubbajj says, there are the bombers.

FW 190D-9 cannot hang with a P-38 in an angles fight (whether on the horizontal or vertical) at any speeds.

ack-ack

[Lusche]

The 190-D9 can hang with P-51D, P-47, P-38, Tempest, Typhoon.

The D-9 polot better be extremely proficient in utilizing his roll rate to the maximum effect vs the Tempest, as the latter will outturn the D-9 pretty easily. Both in turn radius as well as turn rate the D-9 is no match.

[Bubbajj]

I did a few runs in a Dora tonight. The thing is a monumental pig if you don't have alt to work with and the climb rate isn't that hot. That said I did do ok taking three out before I got chased down by two ponies, an 4-hog, an A hog that dropped down from the moon, two nikis, a spixteen, a K4, and an assortment of other craft I couldn't identify cause all the red kinda merged together. Definately a BnZ bird but heaven help you if you manage to get saddled. I thought they were supposed to be fast, maybe not so much. A5 is a good midwar bird and I've been tooling around with it a bit lately too.

[gyrene81]

FW 190D-9 cannot hang with a P-38 in an angles fight (whether on the horizontal or vertical) at any speeds.

ack-ack

Well sir, depending on my mood, and level of brain activity, I have been able to hang with P-38s in various situations...remembering the D9s limitations vs the 38 all one has to do is think and use the strengths of the plane...of course I have yet to catch you with your shorts down but the time will come... 

The D-9 polot better be extremely proficient in utilizing his roll rate to the maximum effect vs the Tempest, as the latter will outturn the D-9 pretty easily. Both in turn radius as well as turn rate the D-9 is no match.

I don't know about that, I have yet to be out turned by a Tempest unless I get stupid enough to turn the D9 flat or get slow enough that the Tempest can deploy flaps before the D9 can. Now the A8 is a definite no win against the Tempest...unless it's a HO...then the A8 has a chance with a heavy gun package.

[jdbecks]

http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/index.php

[Saurdaukar]

I did a few runs in a Dora tonight. The thing is a monumental pig if you don't have alt to work with and the climb rate isn't that hot.

Eh?

The climb rate in the D-9 eclipses most of the LWMA plane set.  Alt-X it, hit WEP and even with 100% internal and a drop tank, you'll climb like a raped ape. 

While I don't particularly care for the D9, I have flown it enough to realize its pretty far from a pig.  The A8 is a pig.  The Dora, by comparison, is a very capable fighter if flown to its strengths.  Even without altitude, E recovery (acceleration/altitude) from co-E states is better than most of what you ran up against per your post.

With nothing more than a 1-2K altitude advantage, I find that the D9 can linger on the edges of a furball and engage and disengage, essentially, at will.  Even if you get caught in a low speed, co-E engagement, you should still be able to gain vertical displacement against most aircraft, consistently.

Try your test on any night other than Tuesday.  You wont have the 25,000ft Club to contend with and your choice of engagements wont be limited to 10v1 or 1v10.

[Bubbajj]

I musta been doin it all wrong. I took drops and didn't use WEP to get to alt. It seems a LALA is all over it for climb in that condition. It did Zoom nicely with wep. I lingered over an enemy field for a while. Problem came when wep was gone and higher cons started appearing. They just ran me down. No doubt if I practiced I would see a bit more of its strengths. A bit of discretion probably wouldn't have hurt either. If nothing else I looked cool. The D is one Evil Sexy looking Biznatch.

[Urchin]

The La-7 takes the strengths of the D-9 and K-4 and combines them into one sweet little package.  It'll dominate either one in a fight, although the K-4 has a chance if the La-7 pilot isn't all that good.

[Ack-Ack]

Well sir, depending on my mood, and level of brain activity, I have been able to hang with P-38s in various situations...remembering the D9s limitations vs the 38 all one has to do is think and use the strengths of the plane...of course I have yet to catch you with your shorts down but the time will come... 

What you explained is a clear indicator that in those fights the superior pilot came out on top over the inferior pilot and not a case where the plane was the deciding factor.  Honestly, if a P-38 driver gets out maneuvered in an angles fight by a Dora it's because the Lightning driver screwed up big time.


ack-ack

[gyrene81]

Well, yeah in a D9 if a La-7 gets on your six, you have a short window of opportunity to extend and maneuver if the lala doesn't have more E on you...otherwise the gig is up fast...just don't get caught low and slow by a lala.

What you explained is a clear indicator that in those fights the superior pilot came out on top over the inferior pilot and not a case where the plane was the deciding factor.  Honestly, if a P-38 driver gets out maneuvered in an angles fight by a Dora it's because the Lightning driver screwed up big time.

ack-ack

Hell man, you've shot me down enough times to know I'm not a "superior pilot" by any stretch of the imagination...you really don't think the Dora can hold its own against a Lightning if its flown to the strengths of the plane?