Author Topic: so how much damage can...  (Read 2563 times)

Offline jay

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so how much damage can...
« on: February 05, 2010, 12:39:49 AM »
a B17 actually withstand?? in game AND in actually WWII documents

image shack sucks :/

pics from one of my sorties





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Offline Serenity

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 01:43:17 AM »


'Nuff said.

Offline oakranger

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 02:25:05 AM »
It is amazing how much damage they take and still fly. 

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/fuselag2.htm
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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 12:09:09 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

'Nuff said.

You realize that damage was from a collision with a 109.

Why didn't the bomber go down too?

It's just not fair.

 :cry


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Offline oakranger

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2010, 12:19:55 PM »
You realize that damage was from a collision with a 109.

Why didn't the bomber go down too?

It's just not fair.

 :cry


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Amazing it felt apart when it landed. 
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Offline Motherland

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2010, 01:06:45 PM »
Amazing it felt apart when it landed. 
Was the ball gunner out before they touched down? Or was he already dead when it landed? Or...?

Offline oakranger

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2010, 02:02:28 PM »
Was the ball gunner out before they touched down? Or was he already dead when it landed? Or...?

well, i really do not see why the ball tureen could not get out as the 190 hit the tail end of the AC.  The only crew that could have meet their faith where the two side gunners which could have been decapitated and the tail gunner.  it took them 90 min of hell to fly back and land.  I read stories that some where ball gunners where trapped and had to stay in the there till they land. and one that was shreaded all over the runway do to landing gear damage. 
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Offline jay

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2010, 02:09:02 PM »
well, i really do not see why the ball tureen could not get out as the 190 hit the tail end of the AC.  The only crew that could have meet their faith where the two side gunners which could have been decapitated and the tail gunner.  it took them 90 min of hell to fly back and land.  I read stories that some where ball gunners where trapped and had to stay in the there till they land. and one that was shreaded all over the runway do to landing gear damage. 

if you were a ball gunner and you got shot (a pilot wound basicly) your blood droplets would freeze due to the high alts sometimes......
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Offline Karnak

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2010, 03:37:30 PM »
Oakranger,

If a hit took the hydraulics out the ball turret could no longer be rotated into a position in which the gunner could get out of it.  I don't know if that happened in the case shown.  Looking at the damage that B-17 took I would not be surprised at all if the waist gunners and tail gunner were uninjured.  The fighter's wing passed through the bomber aft of the waist gunners and well ahead of the tail gunner.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2010, 03:47:02 PM »
don't know about the ball or waist gunners but I believe the tail gunner servived and was stuck in the tail section until they landed.


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Offline Serenity

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2010, 03:51:16 PM »
don't know about the ball or waist gunners but I believe the tail gunner servived and was stuck in the tail section until they landed.


ack-ack

IIRC, Dan (Who I got that picture from) mentioned that all survived (Though i may be wrong on that). The tail-gunner however, DID survive, and had to be very strongly coerced to cross the gap in flight to the relative safety of the fuselage.

Offline Lepape2

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2010, 04:26:52 PM »
It seems the tail gunner survived this one but only, he didn't land with the plane  :O
How can you still have elevator control after this? (the R/H side seems unaffected though...) You can see the Elevator bellcrank assy.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 04:29:45 PM by Lepape2 »
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Offline Saxman

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2010, 04:37:20 PM »
You realize that damage was from a collision with a 109.

Why didn't the bomber go down too?


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Offline Volron

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 08:18:20 PM »
I've returned in worse shape than that. :lol  I just wish I had taken a screen shot.  I figured it was an every day thing that happened on AH, so I didn't.  But it would seem that is not the case. :furious

Well, if much of the damage done to the WW2 B-17's, were inflicted upon our B-17's, we just go poof.  This does make me wonder what kind up upgrade to the damage system will come into play when the WW1 fighters are released.  Will we start seeing more realistic damage inflicted?  In other words, will our B-17's come back with huge chunks and holes missing from the tail, wings and elevator's, and not just parts missing?  Will there be "gear drops" due to the loss of hydraulic fluid and flat tires?  As is, if we lost most of our vertical stabilizer, we just fall from the sky like a rock (if the whole thing didn't just "drop off").  There are pictures of B-17's coming home with just a sliver of their vertical stabilizer remaining.  I wish I had better luck in finding these photos.  I have the instruction manual from a game, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, but I don't have a scanner.  It contains photo's of B-17's that returned home with extensive damage inflicted to them.  That instruction manual included a little history of the 8th's role over Europe.  Though I would not likely cite it as a viable source for information at this point, as far more accurate information is out now compared to when it was released (August of 1991).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oav6I0DcfY&feature=related

0:27 The game manual had this picture and said it was the result of a flak blast.  Wiki confirms this information...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-17_Flying_Fortress  It is towards the bottom of the page on the right hand side...

"B-17G-80BO 43-38172 8th AF 398th BG 601st BS damaged on a bombing mission over Cologne, Germany on 15 October 1944. Pilot 1st Lt. Lawrence De Lancey brought the wounded Fortress back to Nuthampstead, UK, where the photo was taken. Notice the upwards effect of the anti-aircraft shell; the bombardier S/Sgt. George E. Abbott was killed."

1:37 This would appear to be a result from flak.

2:29 A B-25 flying without a nose, possibly from flak.

2:42 This one here, looks like flak damage as well.

My point is, if any of this type of damage were to be inflicted to our planes, we either just fall apart or go poof.  To this day, I have YET to see a bomber "cut in two"...  Sure, I've lost my tail, but have never been "cut in two".  Maybe I've been lucky?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 11:08:49 PM by Volron »
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Offline colmbo

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Re: so how much damage can...
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2010, 11:25:54 PM »
Oakranger,

If a hit took the hydraulics out the ball turret could no longer be rotated into a position in which the gunner could get out of it.

Absolutely not true.  If the power for the turret was damaged/inop you simply use the handcranks to move the turret around...been there, done that in a B-24 and B-17.

FYI, the ball-gunner had the best survival rate of anyone in a B-17, regardless of all the lore about how dangerous it was.
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