Different LW Country Setup?

[whiteman]

i only play LW because that's where the numbers are. If the AVA operated more like Grizz described so that i could fly the F4U when ever I'd play there of there were more than 3 people. Wish a LW arena could run like that Grizz.

[Lusche]

If we woke up tomorrow and the main arena was completely reformatted to be axis vs allies theme with all the gameplay balance issues figured out

The latter part is the key point, and it's, in AH's current state, a pure Utopia.

[shiv]

Plane sets aside, there's also the argument that you need three sides, not two, to have a successful environment with a large amount of players.  I think I recall HT saying this and it seems to make sense.

[USCH]

On the same note, RAF vs Luft would never be balanced as long as the mighty few have Spitfire.

how do you spell oxymoron?  Kaz my dear squady and friend WE are supposed to be outnumbered we are THE FEW

[grizz441]

The latter part is the key point, and it's, in AH's current state, a pure Utopia.

Well, the balance issues and 2v3 country discussion were kind of what I was going for with this thread.  I'm guessing now that it's going to take an additional page or two before the distinction between my OP and the current AvA setup are made and then five additional pages dedicated to AvA pilots coming in and starting a flame war before ultimately getting this thing locked.  

[uptown]

Couldn't HTC just make everything available in AvA a couple of nights a week? It could be like a mad experiment if you will.  

[grizz441]

Couldn't HTC just make everything available in AvA a couple of nights a week? It could be like a mad experiment if you will.  

Well I know there are currently too many balance issues that will make it entirely too problematic.  Allies have too much bomber power vs Axis.  Allies have no counter to Me262s.  I think most fighters are actually pretty balanced for each side.  Not sure about the ground game, as I'm no experten in that department.  

If it were going to work, you'd have to either add another Axis heavy bomber (I'm not a war buff, I don't even know if there was one) or cheat by making Ju88/Ki67s ordnance have some sort of lethality adjustment factor to compensate.  Yeah it wouldn't be entirely historically accurate but it would be a compromise for balanced gameplay.  The meteor could also be added to counter the Me262.  These are the main ones that come to mind and the course of discussion I hope this thread to travel down.

Also, what are the main arguments for and against 2 country war or 3 country war?  If a 2 country war has multiple fronts, I guess I don't see the distinction.

[Twizzty]

Grizz, they did something like this in the AvA several months ago. It was an MA map with 3 sides...Axis Europe vs. Axis Japan vs. Allied. IMO it was the best setup ran last year and a blast to fly.

It had some obvious issues, heavy bombers for the axis, GV's for Japan, CV planes for Germany and so on. I would still like to see it back though.

[uptown]

I like what you purpose would take a whole new redesign of the game. The axis have no planes or GVs to take territory. Alot would have to be added to the game and maybe some things taken out. I don't see HTC wanting to do something like that.
Right now i'm just crossing my fingers that the WW1 thing don't go the way of CT.

Heavily perk the ord, formations or the bombers themselves. What's wrong with 250pts for a set of B17s,lancs or 24s?

[grizz441]

I like what you purpose would take a whole new redesign of the game. The axis have no planes or GVs to take territory. Alot would have to be added to the game and maybe some things taken out. I don't see HTC wanting to do something like that.
Right now i'm just crossing my fingers that the WW1 thing don't go the way of CT.

Yeah I don't expect anything to be resolved overnight.  Was just hoping the exact issues could be pointed out, discussed, and then the feasibility of all points weighed and evaluated, you know, how a discussion would evolve on a utopian message board.   

[Lusche]

Also, what are the main arguments for and against 2 country war or 3 country war?  If a 2 country war has multiple fronts, I guess I don't see the distinction.

A three country war, particularly with the current "new" rules to win the war (must have fields of both enemy countries) is more dynamic. Though the odds are floating, no country will be permanently be the one that is piled upon. (Which happened for prolonged times with the old rules for winning the war)

When it's only 2 countries, it's always A vs B. It's a huge chance of getting unbalanced pretty quickly even with balanced planesets.


Planes that would have to be introduced before one could ever think about Axis v Allies:

- Ju-87 G and Hs 129 (counterparts of Il-2, Hurri 2D & B-25)
- He-177 and Do 217 (medium and heavy bomber, a He 111 wouldn't help at all)
- an Allied flack vehicle (Wirbelwind & Ostwind)
- Meteor (Me 262)
- removal (yes, removal) of the Me 163

Unfortunately, I don't see a good to balance the CV based planeset

[AWwrgwy]

EW had more numbers for at most a week after the split.  Why?  Because it was first on the list of arenas and people just logged in without looking.  Also, for the first week or so after the split LW had only Late War aircraft.  Not the "everything" we now have.

I don't see why the AVA could not be enabled as ALL Axis vs. Allied aircraft.  Isn't it pretty much player plane-set enabled now?

I predict the numbers will not change at all though.  The majority goes where the majority is no matter what.  Maps or plane-sets don't matter.  

The few who have similar tastes in maps set the direction most others follow regarding which LW arena has the most players.  Still, I believe the other deciding factor is where the arena is on the list of arenas.  Look at LW Blue lately.  It has more numbers than it usually does because of the map but you do not see the usual disparity in numbers between the two LW arenas because of the "pick the first open arena" people.
 

wrongway

[Masherbrum]

EW had more numbers for at most a week after the split.  Why?  Because it was first on the list of arenas and people just logged in without looking.  Also, for the first week or so after the split LW had only Late War aircraft.  Not the "everything" we now have.

I don't see why the AVA could not be enabled as ALL Axis vs. Allied aircraft.  Isn't it pretty much player plane-set enabled now?

I predict the numbers will not change at all though.  The majority goes where the majority is no matter what.  Maps or plane-sets don't matter.  

The few who have similar tastes in maps set the direction most others follow regarding which LW arena has the most players.  Still, I believe the other deciding factor is where the arena is on the list of arenas.  Look at LW Blue lately.  It has more numbers than it usually does because of the map but you do not see the usual disparity in numbers between the two LW arenas because of the "pick the first open arena" people.
 
wrongway

You'd be incorrect.    But hey, you tried.   

[Vinkman]

Well I know there are currently too many balance issues that will make it entirely too problematic.  Allies have too much bomber power vs Axis.  Allies have no counter to Me262s.  I think most fighters are actually pretty balanced for each side.  Not sure about the ground game, as I'm no experten in that department.  

If it were going to work, you'd have to either add another Axis heavy bomber (I'm not a war buff, I don't even know if there was one) or cheat by making Ju88/Ki67s ordnance have some sort of lethality adjustment factor to compensate.  Yeah it wouldn't be entirely historically accurate but it would be a compromise for balanced gameplay.  The meteor could also be added to counter the Me262.  These are the main ones that come to mind and the course of discussion I hope this thread to travel down.

Also, what are the main arguments for and against 2 country war or 3 country war?  If a 2 country war has multiple fronts, I guess I don't see the distinction.

This 262 issue seems over stated to me. Grizz you fly them more than most, isn't it rare that you get chased off by another 262? 262s seem to be scarce down low around ack and towns, two places you need to be if your going to capture bases. If the 262 was still perked, its use would still remain a novelty.  Hmm would 262s and 163 help even up the lopsided Bomber problem? But is Fighters vs Bomber what anyone wants the main action to be?
My prediction is that if AvA became the main arena with all the planes turned on, the fighter vs fighter action would be OK, but it might quickly [D]evolve into axis-fighter vs Allied-bombers since the only counter to Allied bomber attacks (that were closing bases, and flattening towns) would be to shoot them down. JU-88 and Ki67 don't seem to be effective base closers. I'd be curious to see it it turned out that way.

I'd vote with others that a one night a week AvA In lieu of the LW would be a cool idea. Maybe if it were only one night, the stragic "lets capture all the bases nd win the fake war" mentality would be at a minimum, so Bombers might not become a big factor.  The plane matchups and loyalties would make it interesting.

Uptown mentioned perking the bombers, this would be another simple and good way to handle the bomber problem.

[AWwrgwy]

You'd be incorrect.    But hey, you tried.   

Incorrect? 

I would go so far as to say, especially after everything was added to LW, that EW arena numbers stayed that way for only days.

It was pure "click on the first arena" mentality at best.  Not "Oh boy!! EW arena!!"

Otherwise, how do you explain the current lack in popularity or the EW "popularity" at the time of the split?




wrongway