Author Topic: Different LW Country Setup?  (Read 2910 times)

Offline Vinkman

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2010, 08:02:24 AM »
This would be massively unbalancing. The Il-2 is tank killer #1 for a good reason.

Kill the ords at an Allied field, and they will up Il-2s that can easily gun down any approaching vehicle.
Kill the ords at an Axis  field and they are simply out of luck. They don't have a plane that can gun down enemy tanks... the Allies have Il-2, Hurricane D, B-25H.


I think the Panzer, Tiger and the Wirblewind more than make up for the Il2.  
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2010, 08:17:35 AM »
I think the Panzer, Tiger and the Wirblewind more than make up for the Il2.  

How so? Tiger & Panzer have their equivalent in the T-34 and Firefly. The Wirbel can't kill enemy tanks. If Allied GVs are rolling onto an Axis airfield that has ords down, there is nothing left to stop them from the air. If Axis are rolling on an Allied airfield, there is: two "Bombers" and a "Fighter". Wirbels could defend against them, but never stop them unless seriously hording.

The fact that the Allies do not have any GV to defend their bases (V bases in particular) against air attack doesn't balance that out. All you have is simply two different imbalances.
Gameplay and map layouts are not designed to take this into account.

Overall gameplay balance in the MA is a delicate thing. It's quite easy to be "ruined".

Additional AvA planeset arena? I wouldn't object at all.
But in place of the MA without huge changes to gameplay and lot of added planes? That's just producing a lot of trouble

(And I still don't have any idea how the TF problem could be solved)

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Offline Impakt

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #77 on: February 17, 2010, 08:36:05 AM »
This is a recurring topic. The numbers show people's preferences, i.e., they want all of the planes all of the time. Of course, the masses have always had bad taste. The alternate arenas have such low numbers that they are a joke and I fly late war simply because it is more fun to have a lot going on. The problem with the Late War arena BEING the game is that many resources are under utilized. How often are the B5N or D3a, etc used? The ENY system helps but there is a penalty for not using the uber rides, especially if one is usually alone, like me. My solution, proposed many times, was to have one 12 (or 24) hour period per month with a rolling plane set. So, for 708 hours per month one could have what we have, but for 12 of them there would be RPS. Why? Maybe the masses would see the virtues of the RPS, and this might help the other arenas. Even such a reasonable and slight concession won't happen, and so AH will always be the Late War arena. One other possible solution is to tweek the Late War.  Make the LA-7, 190-D, Spit XVI, P-51D, P-47N & M, 109-K perk planes. Don't allow any ords on planes with eny below 20. Do away with drop tanks UNLESS you take 100% fuel.



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Offline uptown

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2010, 09:15:20 AM »
The problem here is the war itself. The Axis powers were basically two countries with limited resourses against a 4 countries, us,russia,uk and china with great spots on the map. The Axis did a poor job of picking a fight. How do you relate the time frames,dates and different technologies to a video game and make it fair? I don't think you can. People ain't going to showup for a unfair game.
With a 3 country system takes this problem away. 

I keep thinking that maybe the folks at HTC run into the same kind of questions amongst themselves when they were laying out the CT part of the game.

I don't really like the way AcesHigh is setup sometimes but I understand it.  :salute
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2010, 09:25:31 AM »
If Allied GVs are rolling onto an Axis airfield that has ords down, there is nothing left to stop them from the air.
Quote

The Me110 can kill T34 and M4s, and is a great ground attack plane.

Quote
If Axis are rolling on an Allied airfield, there is: two "Bombers" and a "Fighter". Wirbels could defend against them, but never stop them unless seriously hording.
Quote

If Tigers, Panzers, and Whirbles are rolling on Allied field with ords down, The IL2 is not going to save the day.

Quote
The fact that the Allies do not have any GV to defend their bases (V bases in particular) against air attack doesn't balance that out. All you have is simply two different imbalances.
Gameplay and map layouts are not designed to take this into account.

My point is the Me110 can kill T34 and M4s, and is a great ground attack plane. Your point was that IL2s render German Armor useless. If IL2s have an advantage of 110s at attacking ground armour, I think the presents of the Whirble, and the superiority of German armour over the T34 ans the Sherman make up the difference. IL2 are easy pickings for german planes as well. so this IL2 threat as a table turner seems overtated. IMO  :salute
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2010, 09:30:38 AM »
My point is the Me110 can kill T34 and M4s,

Not really without ords. The 110 is using low velocity thin-walled HE shells.

If Tigers, Panzers, and Whirbles are rolling on Allied field with ords down, The IL2 is not going to save the day.

Oh yes, it is - unless the enemy is hording, i.e. massive numerical advantage. Unlike the 110, the Il-2 simply chews through any enemy armor
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2010, 10:01:17 AM »
Not really without ords. The 110 is using low velocity thin-walled HE shells.

Oh yes, it is - unless the enemy is hording, i.e. massive numerical advantage. Unlike the 110, the Il-2 simply chews through any enemy armor


Lusche I suck and I've killed/disabled tanks and armour with a 110.  No doubt the IL2 is better, but trying to kill tanks by flying IL2s into a bunch of whirbs is a death sentence for any plane.
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #82 on: February 17, 2010, 10:24:14 AM »
The problem here is the war itself. The Axis powers were basically two countries with limited resourses against a 4 countries, us,russia,uk and china with great spots on the map. The Axis did a poor job of picking a fight. How do you relate the time frames,dates and different technologies to a video game and make it fair? I don't think you can. People ain't going to showup for a unfair game.
With a 3 country system takes this problem away.  

I keep thinking that maybe the folks at HTC run into the same kind of questions amongst themselves when they were laying out the CT part of the game.

I don't really like the way AcesHigh is setup sometimes but I understand it.  :salute


Compromise historical accuracies for game play balancing considerations.  And why not, there's nothing historically accurate about how the MA is run anyways other than individual plane modeling and armament detail.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 10:46:06 AM by grizz441 »

Offline LLogann

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #83 on: February 17, 2010, 12:02:12 PM »
You know this whole time, I've been thinking you just meant make it 2 countries in MA grizz.....  But you really do want a similar to Axis v Allies setup just without any restrictions on "up-able" aircraft?

I would have to agree with the disagree'rs on that idea.  I like the Mossie just as much as the 262 per say.  I'd hate to have to choose.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #84 on: February 17, 2010, 12:13:44 PM »
No doubt the IL2 is better, but trying to kill tanks by flying IL2s into a bunch of whirbs is a death sentence for any plane.

That's why you up a B-25H and take out the flak panzies with a single shot from way beyond the flak panzie's gun range.  B-25H is just as effective in killing ground vehicles as the IL2 is.


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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #85 on: February 17, 2010, 01:11:24 PM »
That's why you up a B-25H and take out the flak panzies with a single shot from way beyond the flak panzie's gun range.  B-25H is just as effective in killing ground vehicles as the IL2 is.


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Depends on who is in the flak.   Come in nice and level at 2-3k while I'm in a Manned Field Gun or an Ostie, you're in the tower 9 times out of 10.   
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #86 on: February 17, 2010, 01:13:12 PM »
The 37mm has much better range...........   :aok   

Depends on who is in the flak.   Come in nice and level at 2-3k while I'm in a Manned Field Gun or an Ostie, you're in the tower 9 times out of 10.   

Come to think of it.... The Axis has MUCH better anti-air gv's.  All the Allies have is the soft gun.  (Nobody ups an M16 anymore)
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #87 on: February 17, 2010, 01:46:29 PM »
I like the Mossie just as much as the 262 per say.  I'd hate to have to choose.

Well I like rooks, and knights AND bish (ok, maybe not bish)! It sux to have to choose nightly or even hourly who I want to fly with.  :cry

I'm not saying I'm totally in favor of it either.  As the game is set up now it would be a complete failure.  But I know I'd be willing to compromise some allied rides I enjoy flying to be strictly Axis for some tours and then maybe switch if I wanted to get a breath of fresh air.

Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #88 on: February 17, 2010, 02:05:10 PM »
If there is a paticular AvA kind of setup you guys want to see invloving late war-aircraft, let us know.

For example, if you want us to run a AvA setup with all aircraft up to 1940/41/42/43/44/45 on a particular side, we can.  We once ran a three-side war - USA/USSR/Germany setup using a triple-sided map. 
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Offline jdbecks

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Re: Different LW Country Setup?
« Reply #89 on: February 17, 2010, 02:13:32 PM »
If there is a paticular AvA kind of setup you guys want to see invloving late war-aircraft, let us know.

For example, if you want us to run a AvA setup with all aircraft up to 1940/41/42/43/44/45 on a particular side, we can.  We once ran a three-side war - USA/USSR/Germany setup using a triple-sided map. 

I think that might be an interesting udea, Enable all axis v allies planes, some one side has Luft, Japanese & Italian v allies.
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