190 versions and thoughts

[juzz]

Tempest would outdive and outrun Dora below 15k methinks. Who needs a fancy Spitfire when you have four Hispano Mk V?  

[Jochen]

 

About the turning abilities of D-9 vs. A-8: They have the same wing, and the D-9 is a tiny bit lighter, with more power. Seems like the Dora might be able to turn better. Also there are some pilots who said that was the case.

Yet in WB, Dora was regarded about the worst turning plane (even worser than A-8) of all and from my experience is not far from truth.

It will be interesting to see how it goes this time.  

 

D-9 has a little more power than the A series at low level, and more power above 20k. Also some D-9 had MW 50 boost with over 2200 hp at sea level. So D-9 performance (climb and speed) is superior to A series above 20,000 feet (approximately) and is much superior at low altitudes if MW 50 is used.

I have had impression that almost all D-9's had MW 50? Before A-8 only prototypes had MW 50, few A-8's might have had MW 50 (photos indicate presence of MW 50 with that yellow/red triangle) but D-9 had it almost as a rule. I think all Ta 152's were delivered with MW 50.

Dora will be a mean mothershrecker but it will not be uberplane. Firepower is not phenomenal and turning ability is below average. It's speed is very good but so is Typhoons and how many of them you see in the arena? Pretty much none.

I don't expect to see Dora being flown outside of historical JG's much. But those who only fly Luftwaffe planes like me will be more than happy to get Dora.

I just hope they don't pull that play balancing toejame to us. Now there will be means to limit plane use in arena (score modifiers and such) other ways than little "extra" weight.

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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen'  Warbirds

Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes

[funked]

About the MW 50 on D-9 - from Wolfgang Wagner "Kurt Tank:  Focke-Wulf's Designer and Test Pilot"  Pg. 162.

 

The D-9 was only retrofitted with a water-methanol system.  The MW 50 injection system could be utilized up to an altitude of about 5000 meters and boosted the Jumo 213A's performance to 2100 hp.  The system was not to be used on takeoff, however, at least initially.  Aquisition of suitable water-methanol systems was hampered by the constant bombing raids, so that a simplified system known as "Oldenburg" was initially fitted.  The first production Fw 190D-9 carried the Werknummer of 210001.  Machine #2 (210002) was retrofitted with its methanol injection system in Langenhagen, while the third aircraft (210043) had it installed in Cottbus.

The same book quotes 580 km/h at sea level and 686 km/h at 6600 m for a non-MW 50 D-9.  A guy who posted on this BBS as "weretiger" found some RAE tests that showed 435 mph at 25,000 feet (no MW 50) and 440 mph at 16,000 feet (MW 50).

 

I just hope they don't pull that play balancing toejame to us. Now there will be means to limit plane use in arena (score modifiers and such) other ways than little "extra" weight.

I think that's the idea, Jochen.    
However I have seen no evidence that the WB Dora was play-balanced...

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-23-2000).]

[crabofix]

 

Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Clipped wings basically enhanches low alt performance.

The MG FF was a Swedish design based on the German Becker cannon of world war 1

swiss right, oerlikon?



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BORK,BORK,BORK!!!"
Crabofix <What happend?...:A stranger morgie turndee burndee ,flip flip flip flip flip flip>
Flygflottlj.19(Lento R5)"swedish Gladiators"

[Jochen]

 

However I have seen no evidence that the WB Dora was play-balanced...

Gosh, I think you're right funked... Apology to HTC, maybe I'm just tired, that's all  

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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen'  Warbirds

Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes

[Nashwan]

Isn't it strange that when the luftwaffe fans talk about real life their planes are so much better than everybody else's, but when it comes to including them in the game they weren't that good really and the Spit XIV will be too uber?
The Spit XIV had a max speed at sea level of 363mph, 584kmh.

[This message has been edited by Nashwan (edited 05-23-2000).]

[Vermillion]

Funked, on the Type 99 cannon. I have been assisting some friends doing research on the Type 99, and I have to say that its difficult to quantify.

The following is from memory but its pretty close.

The Type 99 went thru 5 different variations during the war, from the MkI like that mounted on the Early Zero's (essentially a MG/FF), to a very late war extremely limited production MkV.

I believe that the version mounted in our N1K2 in AH is probably the MkIV (but maybe a MkIII), which was a very capable 20mm cannon, which was somewhere between the MG151/20 and Hispano in capability.

Gustins page, only lists the stats for the Mk1 and MkII.

Nashwan, that is 3 mph faster than the non-MW50 Dora, and only a few mph slower than the P-51. Plus the Spit XIV can easily outclimb, outturn, outaccelerate, maintains E better, and has better armament than either of those two other fighters. Now who's forgetting things?  



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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Kieren]

Yet another pirated thread...

[Nashwan]

I'm not forgetting anything. I fully accept the Spitfire XIV is the best fighter to see combat in WW2   It's the Luftwaffles who seem to be forgetting that when they talk about real life, but then they recover their memory when anyone asks if it can be introduced into AH.
to quote Hristos (who shot me in my chute on my first day in AH  
On the other hand, Spitfire was just an outdated design. Sure more powerful engines were introduced, but the plane could only count on mistakes of enemy pilots or surprise to be effective (any Dora could simply dive away from Spit XIV). WW2 air combat was rarely a 1 on 1 duel, where Spitfire could beat any plane. It was all hit and run, and some plane designers just knew better than Mitchell some 10 years earlier
Why is he so frightened of the Spit then?

[Karnak]

Sorry, my bad.

Sisu

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-23-2000).]

[Karnak]

Sorry for pirating the thread guys.

I'll be more careful in the future.

Sisu

[Nashwan]

It's not pirating the thread, it's a direct reponse to what Hristo said in his first post. He even asked for comments.
Karnak, thanks for translating into English what I was trying to say.

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:

its that the Lufflewaffles talk the talk, but won't walk the walk.  

And that from a guy who doesn't even fly AH ? Now walk the walk and come to AH.

Here's pic for you:

 

[Karnak]

Sorry again.

Sisu

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-23-2000).]

[Karnak]

Sorry, really, I am.

Sisu

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-23-2000).]