The SPAD, the 51 of its era...

[LesterBoffo]

He also missed the point that most airplanes had either welded steel tubing or welded aluminum tubing for a fuselage (at least) and most control surfaces were the same.

 Not that I missed it, more to say i didn't also mention it.   But yes Fokker and Brequet did make largely metal structured cloth covered aircraft, and we have the Junkers corrugated aluminum and amour plated ground attack beasts.  That being said the Spads, Sopwith Camels, Snipes, and Salamanders, and SE5a's were still largely wood and linen.

[Karnak]

March of '43 isn't that late to the game, plus there were a number delivered to England on lend lease that saw action before then.  Not great numbers mind you, and with the Allison instead of the Merlin or Packard.

  My dad saw one of the prototypes fly from the North American test airfield in '39.  He said it was incredibly fast even then.

Merlin powered P-51Bs first show up in Oct. of '43 and didn't fly operations in Europe until Dec. of '43.  The P-51D operations didn't get fully into swing until mid-1944.  Where the heck did you get March of '43 from?

[LesterBoffo]

  Are we referring to US Army Air Corps operations or RAF? 

 I will admit to being not fully cognizant of the operational history of the Mustang, as I'm more of a WWI history buff, but the British were the first to realize the potential of the Mustang and they did install the first Merlin into the Apache, did they not?

 Anyway, do you guys all get this combative with noobs here?  I was just making small talk. Besides we're making comparisons between aircraft that have little in the way of analogous operational histories.

 Do I get a welcome..

[Wmaker]

Merlin powered P-51Bs first show up in Oct. of '43 and didn't fly operations in Europe until Dec. of '43.  The P-51D operations didn't get fully into swing until mid-1944.  Where the heck did you get March of '43 from?

Well A-36 deliveries were complete in March '43 and the first P-51 mission by the USAAF was made in April '43. As LesterBoffo mentioned, RAF had been flying P-51 operations before that. He also mentioned that he was talking about Allison-Mustangs. He's actually pretty much correct.

[Serenity]

One wierd question though...

I've read accounts of ww1 pilots exploring alttitudes above 12'000ft, how was this possible in the times before oxygen bottles?!

Its plainly stated in many pilot accounts..., anyone have an answer?

Been to 13,000 in an unpressurized aircraft without oxygen myself. It's not a great idea for long durations, but it is doable.

[Rash]

I drove my car to 14,000 and stayed around for a couple hours.

[Chalenge]

I have lung damage (from ammonia) and I have to go on oxygen at 8000 feet. I dont think every healthy person even can remain functional at just 14000 for very long.

[morfiend]

 Welcome to AcesHigh Lester!

 If you want to post here you better grow a thick skin,even if your imformation is correct chances are someone will find so fault to argue over....

  Be sure to be prepared to backup any statements but by all means go ahead and post away.

   

PS: Actually the community here is pretty good even if it doesnt seem like it at times.

[Hap]

Captain Eddie flew one.

[Warspawn]

I dont think every healthy person even can remain functional at just 14000 for very long.

If you're 'healthy' (able to pass a class III FAA flight physical, not too tough if you have normal heart and lung function) you aren't required to use suplemental oxygen until you've reached 14,000 feet.  Passengers must have it available (not required to use it...) after the aircraft passes 15,000 feet.

[Serenity]

If you're 'healthy' (able to pass a class III FAA flight physical, not too tough if you have normal heart and lung function) you aren't required to use suplemental oxygen until you've reached 14,000 feet.  Passengers must have it available (not required to use it...) after the aircraft passes 15,000 feet.

BUT, you may only remain above 12,000 for 30 minutes without supplemental oxygen.

[Chalenge]

If you're 'healthy' (able to pass a class III FAA flight physical, not too tough if you have normal heart and lung function) you aren't required to use suplemental oxygen until you've reached 14,000 feet.  Passengers must have it available (not required to use it...) after the aircraft passes 15,000 feet.

You can still have issues and pass the physical. Even with a lung that has seen too much ammonia I can function and fly a plane at 14000 just like you but I wont be talking at an understandable level without oxygen or I will be doing a lot of coughing one or the other. Experience has taught me that I can avoid problems by using a oxygen at a lower altitude and Im sure there are others that do the same.

Point is in WW1 they had oxygen regardless of what we do now in practice or via regulation.

[LesterBoffo]

Welcome to AcesHigh Lester!

 If you want to post here you better grow a thick skin,even if your imformation is correct chances are someone will find so fault to argue over....

  Be sure to be prepared to backup any statements but by all means go ahead and post away.

   

PS: Actually the community here is pretty good even if it doesnt seem like it at times.

 Thanks Morfiend,  I'm pretty used to it. I guess it would be near suicide to mention I'm from the Targetware Richthofen's Skies development group?      Actually I'm doing the offline pioneering flight module.  This Bulletin board seems like a fun place to be. 

 

[PFactorDave]

I have lung damage (from ammonia) and I have to go on oxygen at 8000 feet. I dont think every healthy person even can remain functional at just 14000 for very long.

Don't most commercial flights pressurize to roughly 7-8k?  Do you have to carry an O2 bottle on a regular commercial flight?

[Chalenge]

No at 8000 and standard pressure everything is fine but proceeding above that and concentrating on any task takes energy and talking takes up more energy (plus the air). If you spend any time in a thermal/wave/ridge (especially with other aircraft around) at 11000 you will quickly learn what Im talking about and push it on up to 15000 and it all becomes very obvious. Also you have to remember that atmospheric pressure is not constant and even as low as 8000 pressure can be so low that it feels as if you are much higher. Of course when WWI is released it will probably be the same as AHII and pressure will be constant.