Un-perk the Spit xiv, or.....

[vonKrimm]

change our current version to a XIVe with the cut-down rear fuselage and "bubble" canopy.  also it would be nice if it got the ability to carry the 2*250lb bomb option of the "e" wing (clipped or un-clipped; don't matter).  Or if the afore cannot happen, how about increasing the rounds per 20mm to 175 each; late in the war an increase from 120rpg to 175rpg was made in "e" wing spits, iirc.  No, I am not going to ask for a 4*20mm version or a +25 boost version as this would just encourage spitards to HO or imitate runstangs.



lol...i just noticed i went from wanting to ask about spit XIVe models to making a wish!  guess Skuzzy will move this to where it should go.

[uptown]

runstangs!.......why you...you .....SPITDWEEB!  ...................... .

[vonKrimm]

runstangs!.......why you...you .....SPITDWEEB!  ...................... .

normally i am not a spitdweeb, but this tour i am running 6-1 in LW spit vs. pony as my rides.  gotta fix this NOW! 
Mid War is okay with a ratio of 1-2 for spit vice pony flights.   

[Guppy35]

Just so you know the in game Spit XIV is the XIVe.  The bubble canopy version showed up at the very end of the war.  The version we have is the more prominant WW2 version.  The e designation is for the wing that has the 2 20mm and 2 50 cal mgs in it.  So you already have what you are asking for.

[vonKrimm]

Just so you know the in game Spit XIV is the XIVe.  The bubble canopy version showed up at the very end of the war.  The version we have is the more prominant WW2 version.  The e designation is for the wing that has the 2 20mm and 2 50 cal mgs in it.  So you already have what you are asking for.

perhaps my grammar skills are lacking.  what i was emphasising was: "...with the cut-down rear fuselage and "bubble" canopy." and: "carry the 2*250lb bomb option of the "e" wing."  If i did not make clear that I already know that we have an "e" wing xiv, then i am sorry.  Mainly I'm just saying "give us a reason to believe the XIV should be perked."

You are correct that what we currently have is the most common XIVe; I am given to understand that the "e" wing also had the ability to house 4*20mm from such sources as http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_wings.html

But i defer to your vastly superior encyclopedic knowledge of WWII aircraft.  so if you say there were no XIVe with the bubble canopy that carried 250lb bombs into combat in squadron strength, then i believe you.

[Noir]

Spitfire XII 

[Scherf]

Who's the girl?

[vonKrimm]

Who's the girl?

well, it could be Mrs. vonKrimm; can't nobody prove it ain't. 

[Guppy35]

perhaps my grammar skills are lacking.  what i was emphasising was: "...with the cut-down rear fuselage and "bubble" canopy." and: "carry the 2*250lb bomb option of the "e" wing."  If i did not make clear that I already know that we have an "e" wing xiv, then i am sorry.  Mainly I'm just saying "give us a reason to believe the XIV should be perked."

You are correct that what we currently have is the most common XIVe; I am given to understand that the "e" wing also had the ability to house 4*20mm from such sources as http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_wings.html

But i defer to your vastly superior encyclopedic knowledge of WWII aircraft.  so if you say there were no XIVe with the bubble canopy that carried 250lb bombs into combat in squadron strength, then i believe you.

The XIV's were used as interceptors along with the Tempests to attempt to chase down the 262s etc.  They didn't get into the fighter bomber role until after the war and the jets took over. . There were bubble canopy XIVs very late in the game.

A Spit XII pilot I got to know  a while back ended up in Spit 16s towards the end of the war.  He was shot down and made a POW while dive bombing sub pens in them.  He was still mad about it.  His comment was that the lack of air targets was coupled with the need to keep the pilots busy which meant some pointless flights.

the 4 cannon Spit discussion has been had many times.  The only example of squadron strength use of 4 cannon birds was in Italy and they were Spitfire Vcs used for ground attack.  They still had the huge Vokes filter under the nose and were not used for air to air as the performance would have  been poor in that role.  Again the lack of air to air targets left lots of fighter pilots doing ground attack.  The Malta Spit Vcs were delivered with 4 cannon but had two removed right away to improve performance.

Those 4 cannon Vc's in Italy


91 Squadron got the 4 cannon Spitfire 21 in March of 45 and flew some operational sorties from England but never encountered anything in the air, while losing two Spit 21s to flak and getting credit for a midget sub off the Hook of Holland.

Seems like lots of AH folks have visions of good Spitfire performace coupled with 4 cannons dancing in their heads often

 As for the XIV being perked.  I'd rather see it get used more so I'm not big on perking it, but then again I'd unperk them all and let folks fly what they want.  I'd trust they'd get bored of Jets, Tempests and C Hogs eventually.

[Sombra]

Who's the girl?

I think it's Jessica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxPEk_UcKUo

[Ruah]

A good pilot is already nearly unbeatable in a XVI, allowing the XIV to become unperked would be detrimental imo.  As it is its tough to take a XVI and the second the pilot makes even a slightly good move - I know I have to get luckey to pull off a win.  For spit hunting I have to pick the plane, the fight, and control the fight from start to finish - and I'm not really good enough to do that.  One blunder and I'm toast - no chance to disengadge, no chance to get the angles to get away, no chance to outclimb. . . The XIV is really a monster - even more then the tempest imo.  Of course lesser pilots will crash the thing because its torque is so massive and it has a tendancey to want to flat spin, but thats not me actually shooting it down.

I am not saying the XVI should be perked, but perking the XIV would be a big big mistake. . .

[Ruah]

A good pilot is already nearly unbeatable in a XVI, allowing the XIV to become unperked would be detrimental imo.  As it is its tough to take a XVI and the second the pilot makes even a slightly good move - I know I have to get luckey to pull off a win.  For spit hunting I have to pick the plane, the fight, and control the fight from start to finish - and I'm not really good enough to do that.  One blunder and I'm toast - no chance to disengadge, no chance to get the angles to get away, no chance to outclimb. . . The XIV is really a monster - even more then the tempest imo.  Of course lesser pilots will crash the thing because its torque is so massive and it has a tendancey to want to flat spin, but thats not me actually shooting it down.

I am not saying the XVI should be perked, but un-perking the XIV would be a big big mistake. . .

on the girl - to quote fightclub - 'she is too freaken. . .. BLOND'

[Lusche]

The XIV is really a monster - even more then the tempest imo.  

Absolutely not.

Why do you think the Tempest has always the best K/D of all MA planes, and the Spit 14 a merely average one?
Because the Temp is the much "better" and far more dangerous MA fighter.

The 14 has just too many weaknesses compared to the Tempest: It's a pretty unstable gunplatform, it hates diving (roll rate quickly drops to nil in a dive), it has a short range and is very fragile (like all wings). At the usual fighting altitude in the MA the 14 not eve better than the 16: It's faster (but still slower than the usual speed demons), but less maneuverable, and the 16 matches the climbrate of the 14.

The Tempest can and will engage & disengage almost at will, can fly for longer distances, strike with it's superior guns and buzz away.

The 14 is the cheapest perked fighter in AH, yet the rarest one by a huge margin (putting the limited available 163 aside).


In the long run, unperking the 14 would affect MA gameplay not more than unperking the Ta152 did... or a unperked 109K has

The Tempest plays in a totally different league than the 14. They are worlds apart.

[trotter]

In my opinion, the Spit 14 benefits from its association with other Spits, while the Tempest is hurt by its association with the Typhoon. We naturally think of the 14 as being good in traditional 'Spit' areas, such as turning and stability of gun platform, even when empirically we are proven otherwise time and again while actually flying the 14. We naturally think the Tempest can't roll or turn because the Typhie can't, and yet the Tempest isn't nearly as bad in those areas.

From my own experience, when I'm flying and want EZ mode, I'll go with a Tempest. When I want a bit of a fun perk plane challenge, I'll fly the 14. This "shouldn't" be the case - the tempest looks like a boat and the other looks like all those ezmode Spits. That in itself proves to me that there must be value in what Lusche is saying.

[vonKrimm]

In my opinion, the Spit 14 benefits from its association with other Spits, while the Tempest is hurt by its association with the Typhoon. We naturally think of the 14 as being good in traditional 'Spit' areas, such as turning and stability of gun platform, even when empirically we are proven otherwise time and again while actually flying the 14. We naturally think the Tempest can't roll or turn because the Typhie can't, and yet the Tempest isn't nearly as bad in those areas.

From my own experience, when I'm flying and want EZ mode, I'll go with a Tempest. When I want a bit of a fun perk plane challenge, I'll fly the 14. This "shouldn't" be the case - the tempest looks like a boat and the other looks like all those ezmode Spits. That in itself proves to me that there must be value in what Lusche is saying.

Agree, the Tempest should be called the 'Tempfire' or alternately, 'SpitPest' and the Spit XIV re-named the 'Spitphoon'.