New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3

[gyrene81]

I don't think Bronk realizes everything he has quoted from HiTech has been stated already through this thread by a couple of people...especially the last quote concerning the pixels and considering the recent changes in AH to higher level graphics than what was possible in 2005...and those screen shots I posted of bombers at 5500 yards shows a lot more than 4 pixels in all views...but hey, as long as he's having fun.

[Shifty]

Actually there were 30 people in the AvA tonight with no enemy icons.

30 people and one Bubi too many. 

[Nr_RaVeN]

Was in AVA tonight  got eaten alive......Ill keep trying... I got it handed to me tonight.
But it was the best assss whipping I had lately. Never enjoyed getting shot down so much.

I had no problem with aircraft ID I could see the white on the zeros from well over 800 out plenty of time to maneuver into position.  The guys were great with 6 calls. I was out classed by great pilots on the opposing team.The kills I did get were very satisfying.
Very good time 

[Krusty]

I flew in the AvA today for about 4 1/2 hours and I did find it harder

If the AVA could code it so you could only fly with a keyboard, it would also be harder.

Does not mean that's more realistic, wouldn't you agree?

Harder != "more realistic" -- something the TW folks fail to grasp repeatedly in their designs.

That myopic view of flight simming is what ruins other games.


P.S. For the uninitiated, "!=" means "is NOT equal to"

[Nr_RaVeN]

Kusty...


Just get your butt in the AVA and have some fun  .... Don't be so GD stubborn..... you'll live  .... You... will... Assimilate.... 
 
RaVe

[Ardy123]

Ack-Ack,
The one difference I noticed with icons off was that the fight was initiated later. Instead of the fight starting at +5k where both parties were planning their attack, people were more hesitant and waited to get up close and personal before they committed to a fight. Of course, this was because they wanted to id the 'con' before engaging.

[jimson]

For those who missed it there was a successful test in the AvA last night.

30 players showed up and positive comments outweighed negative comments by about 10 to .5

The best combination seemed to be no enemy icons and short range friendly icons

Obviously there is a market for no enemy icon play, and perhaps the AvA is the right place for it.

Sort of fits with the historical immersive flavor the AvA is supposed to have.

Of course there will then be the people who wan't no enemy icons and the ability to fly any plane from any country at any time, but we all make some sacrifices.

To those who say don't try to force no icons on others just because you like it, you have a choice too, one most of you are already making, the other arenas over AvA.

Seriously, how many of the thousands of AvA enthusiasts are going to be driven out of there because of no enemy icons compared to how many will try it because of no enemy icons?

This might really be a good way for the AvA to offer a truly different experience.

I say make AvA the only choice for no enemy icons.

Might as well, as nothing else seems to be drawing many people into that arena.

It's worth a try.

[gyrene81]

Good post Jimson...with enough postitive feedback and people playing in the AvA with the no enemy icon settings, it's a good chance that will be a standard setting in there...


Did anyone who played in the AvA notice that there was very little if any HOing going on? Without the enemy icons it's a little more difficult to line guns up head on, and in the MAs it's not uncommon for someone to start firing at 800 out...but with enemy icons off it's easier to have a collision without the distance markers telling you when you should move...by the time you get close enough to consider making the attempt the other guy is moving to avoid the collision and you have to move to prevent him from getting on your six.





Raven, I think Krusty is too close minded to consider the possibility that people can learn to adapt to a scaled down virtual environment and the limitations within by conditioning the brain to associate approximate relative distances between 2 objects without having constant visual aids.

[ink]

I hate that quote because almost every player who uses it grossly misunderstands it, ink being just one more in a long line.

For some reason they seem to think it means Bob was flying along, on cruise settings, straight and level when Franz shot him down and that most pilots who got shot down were shot down in that fashion.  It means nothing of the sort.  While that scenario did happen on occasion, what the quote refers to is that Bob was in combat, trying to shoot down Hans when Franz, who Bob had not seen pull in on his six, shot Bob down.  That happens in AH all the time too.


Motherland,

What resolution do you run at?  I run at 1920x1200 and there is no way I can tell the difference between a Spitfire and a Bf109 at two miles in AH.

very many of the killz is exactly how you describe it here "For some reason they seem to think it means Bob was flying along, on cruise settings, straight and level when Franz shot him down"  except "bob" was not spacing out he was looking every where to try and find the bandit and still got shot down by him, not knowing whence he came from, so if  the nme of "Bob" had icons over their planes do you think he would miss them?  in other words not see them?  or be able to track them? seriously think about it, I am sure many pilots looked right at nme planes and never saw them, due to the planes camo and position,now if they had that giant neon sign over head.... after reading every thing you who say it is more realistic to have them on, it may make up for the distant viewing the monitor cant replicate, BUT once the nme con is say within 600 it is way over kill and provides a unrealistic way of tracking the nme con while doing ACM.


most of the sim flying I have done has been here in AH, I went to the "combat challenge" on the off night of FSO I fly on a 19" wide screen, monitor with a resolution  of 1440-900, and I got 15 killz,(my first three sorties i got no killz but then I got warmed up) the most on our side....so much for the "having a small monitor being a issue with no icons" argument.

[Nr_RaVeN]

This May help .....I'm going to post a gun sight tutorial.

It will show the reason why the hash marks are on the gun sights. This is how one can quickly adapt to a no icon environment.

The short version is that the gunsight hash marks tell you how far away the bad guy is, without the need for Icons.

The hash marks on the gun sights give you the ability to approximate the targets relative distance from your aircraft. 

WOW what a crazy idea concept. ... I just thought the hash marks were on there as decorations  .....will elaborate in another post as to how it all works for those that might not know how to use them

[gyrene81]

LOL...ahem Raven...what about those gunsights that don't have hash marks? 

[Motherland]

Unfortunately our gunsights don't work properly in the first place so you can't actually do that accurately

[Krusty]

Motherland is right... The same gunsight file will display with difference "scaling" sizes on different planes. Even fi you have it set so "hash marks" help (a little) in one plane, they will not translate over to the next. MANY planes have issues like this in-game. Folks have been asking for a fix in the F6F (or was it F4U?) gunsight for years. Not to mention moving your head position in and out changes the relative size of the hash marks against the supposed target.

There's nothing consistent with that setup, and no way of using it to just distances.


That's totally negating the fact that hash marks on gunsights only help with non manuvering planes that hold still while you slowly approach until you're "just" the right distance away. So, yeah, there's that, too.


P.S. Jimson, the very reason the AvA is dying and has been for a long time is that they quash any negative feedback, stick fingers in their ear and go "LA LA LA L ALA I can't hear you" if you have anything to say that isn't exactly what the vocal minority agree upon. So, no, you can't use "AvA feedback" as a guide for success. Not to mention a novel 1-time (or short-run) experience can be fun because it is different, but does not mean it is successful, and above all does NOT mean "realistic" either.

P.P.S. Gyrene, you're ignoring and insulting anybody who posts anything to say you're wrong, so let me put it this way... Historically speaking a HO was a great tool. It was a common tool. It was used as an excellent weapon to use against the japanese planes with lesser armor, as well as used by cannon-armed LW 190s and 109s against US fighters. If the AvA visual accuity was so poor without icons as to preclude the ability to take a HO shot, that tells you you're beyond blind, have been handicapped beyond any historically accurate reasonable levels, and you should re-evaluate things.

[Nr_RaVeN]

Unfortunately our gunsights don't work properly in the first place so you can't actually do that accurately

I know but  with no Icons it gets you in the ballpark and that's all you need you cant rely 100% but in the ball park will get you on target and more kills.

  I know if an AC is wing tip to wing tip in my sight he is 200-250  out if his ac is half that he is approximately 600 and so on it gives me what I need to move in for the kill.

I'm sure lots have seen this but its always nice to have as a review again it gets you in the ball park the rest is up to your skill set. Its not an exact science but it works for me.

This was written by  Andy Bush in his Sim HQ article
Using the Gunsight To Determine Range
Regardless of the design of the sight that you like to use, it has lines or curves that you can use to estimate range. In its most simple form, this consists of flying behind a target and comparing the size of the target to markings on the sight. These markings represent how large a target of a known size will appear at various ranges. Can we do this with our simulation gunsights? In most cases where the sim has range cues, the answer is yes. Here's how.

In AH, we can go to the offline area and fly behind one of the drones at our desired convergence range. Film this using the recorder function (Alt+R). Then play back the film and stop the film when at your convergence range. Observe the relationship of the wingspan of the drone to your sight. We will compare the size of the sight features to the target wingspan.

You have two ways to do this. One way is to use the standard forward view (F1) and then use the zoom (Z ) feature to expand the view. Note the relative size of your sight feature to the drone wingspan. Here is what the default gunsight looks like:

 
With the default sight, you can see that the P-51 drone wingspan appears to be about half again as wide as the gap between the horizontal bars of the sight when we are at the 300 yard point. The wingspan of the P-51 is representative of a typical WW2 fighter wingspan. If you use this relative target size as an example of what a 300 yard range looks like when compared to the default sight, you won’t be far off regardless of whatever type of target you have. And, no matter what sim you fly, this technique remains valid...as long as you can determine range by some means, you can use the sight as a range indicator.

A second method is a bit more complicated...but easier to use. The idea is to customize the sight such that markings on the sight match the target size at your convergence range. The design of the markings should be chosen to make this size matching as easy as possible. The actual procedures for this technique will be discussed at the end of this article. Here is a typical example:

 
In either case, you have a sight that tells you what the target should look like at your convergence range. This type of ranging is known as stadiametric ranging, and while the procedure is a bit more complicated in real life, this technique works well in Aces High.

Good! Now we have found a way to solve the first problem of range. Now we move on to the second problem...how do we get our gun into the target’s plane of motion?

here the linkhttp://www.simhq.com/_air/air_031a.html

NOW  this again is to get you in the ball park it works just fine It helps me toss taters too... lets not break out the graphs.

 

Good Movie of range and Sight Here take a peek

[gyrene81]

P.P.S. Gyrene, you're ignoring and insulting anybody who posts anything to say you're wrong, so let me put it this way... Historically speaking a HO was a great tool. It was a common tool. It was used as an excellent weapon to use against the japanese planes with lesser armor, as well as used by cannon-armed LW 190s and 109s against US fighters. If the AvA visual accuity was so poor without icons as to preclude the ability to take a HO shot, that tells you you're beyond blind, have been handicapped beyond any historically accurate reasonable levels, and you should re-evaluate things.

LOL...Krusty now you're grasping at straws...I never said the visual acuity was that bad...everything you need to enhance your view to the point of being useful without extremes exists in AH, but with the lack of visual cues found in the icons people weren't comfortable with taking chances they would normally take with the icons feeding them distance information...try not jumping to conclusions next time.

And it is common knowledge that although useful in some instances, HO attacks against fighters was not a "common tool" for the average pilot due to the higher probability of collision...and the use of the term "head on attack" meant any attack where both aircraft were moving towards each but not exactly nose to nose.


Now, after I have specifically addressed you personally throughout most of your attempts to make yourself out to be of higher intellect than I, and with you ignoring the very content as well as context of what has been said against your rantings...don't say I am ignoring anyone as that is a complete falsehood.