The C Hog...Why Was It Not Perked?

[Ripsnort]

GRUN,until you show numbers that otherwise prove that somethings porked with the FM, then it is simply that, a whine.

Many have showed numbers for other A/C and they have been corrected.  Until you can, its a moot point.  And, as usual, the best A/C and/or.. the most lethal guns, will always carry the weight of arena "Favorite".  Like I said, if the C-Hog wasn't here, it'd be the 'next-in-line' whine.  Human nature.

Edit, added AND/OR

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-27-2001).]

[Torgo]

 

Originally posted by R4M:
 I rate the La7 as a better plane than the D9, and with a distinctive advantage. is more agile, and outperforms the D9 on everything under 7K,and outturns it at any altitude . Just you have to learn how to bring the fite down.

Arrggh. People consistently miss my point.

It doesn't matter how you "rate" the LA-7. It's utterly irrelevant to what should and shouldn't be perked.

And despite how YOU rate the La-7, the Dora has both more arena kills, and a MUCH higher kill/death ratio. And that's all that matters. And that's why you'd HAVE to perk the Dora if you perk the La-7.


There may be extraneous reasons why the Dora is doing better; better average pilot quality flying it than the La-7, etc. There will always be issues like that looking at any tour statistics. But the point is the La-7 isn't all THAT popular and isn't doing well K/D wise (personally, I think a lot of it is that people are under the mistaken impression that it's a great turner, and are turnfighting too much; it's an unusual combo...the low-alt shallow boom & zoom fighter. People keep getting waxed by Nikis and Spits and whatnot in it, I suspect).

I do recognize you're not in favor of perking either aircraft :-)

If the Mc202 suddenly, one tour, had half the kills in the arena and a 2:1 K/D ratio, I'd advocate perking the Mc202.

In these perk discussions, people are determined to get into esoteric discussions of their personal impressions of aircraft, and fine details of performance specs, but it all doesn't matter.

Well, it matters a little...when introducing new perk planes, for example. HTC had no arena stats to go on when they decided to perk the Tempest. But it was blatantly obvious from the performance specs and armament that if it was unperked you'd see little else in the arena, so it was perked going in.

ALL that matters are the stats from tours. Total Kills, Kill/Death ratio. That's ALL that HTC is going to look at in changing perk planes, or changing perk prices. And that's all we should look at.

Back when the CHOG was REALLY taking over the arena, and Pyro said it was in danger of being perked, it was simply a numbers issue.
All the people with their personal testimonials of "I took a C202 up last night, kille 5 CHogs in one sortie, it isn't that great and shouldn't be perked" were TOTALLY irrelevant. All that mattered was the obscenely high % of arena kills going to the CHog.



[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 03-27-2001).]

[Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
GRUN,until you show numbers that otherwise prove that somethings porked with the FM, then it is simply that, a whine.

Many have showed numbers for other A/C and they have been corrected.  

Other than the pulse laser Hispano thingy, I could care less about the Chog...However, it was pointed out a few months ago that the Chog is missing about 300lbs in weight if I remember correctly. To my knowledge, that hasn't been corrected yet.

[Torgo]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Alittle history on the C-Hog in Main, first month it was very popular, due to being a new plane.  Then next tour seemed as though the numbers died off, but a few Aces continued flying it.  Then the Whine threads began, popularity was fueled by the Whine Threads, and thus we have what we have today.

I think it's a VERY dubious proposition that the reason for Chog popularity is  whine threads here or even whine threads on the open channel.

First of, the vast majority of AH players never even read the BBS.

And secondly, people aren't going to choose a plane, and KEEP choosing it, just because they hear people whining about how great it is. People are choosing the CHog because it's very easy for a poor pilot to rack up a ton of kills in it and they discover that by personal experience. If people were overrating it and it doesn't deserve to be whined about, but people still whined about it,  people would quickly abandon it.

Again, it's striking how, tour after tour, it leads in total kills by an enormous margin (even subtracting out ground vehicles) AND leads in K/D ratio, despite the fact that undoubtedly a huge number of poor pilots are flying it.

I expect the LA7 to follow the same path.

The LA-7 doesn't have a prayer of ever getting close to the number of arena kills in a tour as the CHog. Or a K/D remotely close. It's even got the spike from being "new" this tour and isn't remotely close to the CHog.

Theres always going to be one A/C that stands above the rest, and there are always going to be those who whine about it.

As always, the issue is HOW MUCH above the rest. No one disputes there will always be one plane with the most arena kills or the highest K/D.

But at it's worst, the Chog was SO MUCH HIGHER than anything else it was making the arena an uninteresting place.


I expect the Chog, next tour, to be back to its height in taking over the arena, and for HTC to be very close to perking it again.

1) We're going back to the islands map

2) No new planes; this tour we had a ton of new aircraft. It's striking that even THIS tour, with such low CV usage, and so many new planes, that the CHog was still WELL above everything else in total arena kills.

What % of arena kills for one AC is acceptable for you, Rip? Would you unperk the Tempest? Would you defend it against people in favor of reperking it, even if it had 50% of the arena air-to-air kills, because "people will always whine about the best plane"?

They also forget that the same guns are used in the Tiffy, Spit, P38L and..(I'm forgetting one..)

Oh please; it's number of those guns and ammo capacity. Isn't that obvious?

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by Raubvogel:
Other than the pulse laser Hispano thingy, I could care less about the Chog...However, it was pointed out a few months ago that the Chog is missing about 300lbs in weight if I remember correctly. To my knowledge, that hasn't been corrected yet.

Yes, but be careful what you wish for, its also not climbing as it should, see F4UDOA's thread on this FM subject.

Torgo, I have the same problem with the Chogs guns as I do the Tiffy, Spit or P38L, that is...if I'm in front of them, I die.  THere within lies the problem.  The Hog can be beat, however, in a MA mentality, any C-Hog can come diving in and smack ya with a few hits, just like the TIffy, SPit or any cannon-bound A/C...thats my point.  Hog is easy to beat, whats not easy to beat is if you end up on the wrong end of it, and historically so.

[GRUNHERZ]

Rip for numbers chog is 600 lbs lighter than in real life, thats why it pulls BS climb manuvers that ive never seen a Dhog pull. In RL Chog was 300lbs heavier than Dhog. this is a significant FM error. In AH Chog is 300lbs lighter than Dhog(this is straight from Pyro BTW, Rip are u gonna say hes wrong on this)  That means the AH chog is 600lbs TOO light. Is that not an inssignificant real number for you Rip?

More numbers, Chog has best K/D rate every tour and most kills by far.

From now on its obvious who the real whiners are they are chog dependant no-skill rutabagas that piss in their pants every time anyone critizes chog in fear they will lose their BS plane.

So shut up you whiners. Ur plane is BS
, and sooner or later its gonna get its due.

[Fatty]

As someone who doesn't fly the C hog (a bit, but well on the low end of sorties compared to other planes), comments like that compell me to support the plane.

If you're going to fly a "manly plane," please do us all a favor and toughen up and leave your skirt in the hangar.

[bowser]

Funny how all the "real" men who fly "real" aircraft are always the ones on this BBS crying like a little girlie man.  Another tissue?  

bowser

[GRUNHERZ]

Thanks for the tissue bowser, very soft  .

But im sure u guys would all be happy if my 109 was made 600lbs too light? Right?

Honestly tell me would you guys care to see that go uncorrected?

[Fatty]

As I fly the 109s a heck of a lot more than any US plane, I wouldn't be too upset.  But there's a big difference between generally wanting accuracy in flight models, and calling everyone who flies the plane(s) you don't like a popsicle.

[GRUNHERZ]

Mebbe true Fatty, but every time somebody brings up chog inaccuracy even with actual documented evidence the same thing happens- they all start right up, name-calling, whiner this whiner that. As if they know deep down that chog is wrong and are afraid to see it fixed and, God no!, maybe try to kill in another less cheap plane.

Plus it really bothers me that a plane with only 200 units made- a painfully insignificant variant of a major and succesful fighter completly kills nearly all use of the Dhog, and completly dominates AH Ma in K/D rate and usage, plus its been known for 3months now that its 600lbs too light and hasnt been fixed.

It just seems to me that the chog crowd whine every time somebody chalenges it, its like they are afraid of loosing its inaccurate edge. They just wannna supress any dissent so they do the easiest thing, ridicule dissenters in hope that the humor of it all will bury the message.

[Staga]

...Wait until I got my new plane, Then we'll see who's whining  
Edit: Another nice pic here.

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 03-27-2001).]

[GRUNHERZ]

262 will be 99% useless in AH, the only thing it was good at in RL was busting US bomber formations- Its high speed allowed it to diregard US escorts all 700+ of them and get at the bombers with 30mm and R4M.

In AH there are no escorts (not needed) since a single AH bomber can defend itself extremely well.

Who in their right mind would risk a certainly 100+ perk point 262 vs the "unique" gunnery system of AH bombers.
Remember max range of AH 30mm Mk108 is 300-400 yards.

As for its ability vs AH fighters, all youll have to do is stay awake and roll out of plane of its dives- if the 262 is an idiot and follows you hell loose speed and E very fast, and will not be able to accel and run away- at this point you reverse, shoot him and pat urself on the back.  

So basically 262 wont be factor in AH, it has no purpose in our world.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

GRUNHERTZ, he will have two purposes :

1/ the fun factor, when I fly the Arado, I have this little ball in my stomach and all my senses are fully awake.

2/ it's so fast that if you can check your 6, find no "dots", type 2 lines of chat and get blasted by one of those puppy vulchers.

Anyway, I say "low perk" the F4C, LA7, D9, P47M... something like 10 perk points. Still very affordable, but u can't take it for each mission. Keep the 70pts for the monster freack show.

Why perk the LA7? Because it's a furballer dream, can outurn most of the plane set, can outrun anyone.... and I hate people who can outurn my P47 AND outrun my P47.  

[GRUNHERZ]

Heh Frenchy nice sneak of the P47M, "M"as in Monster