WWI No icon areana

[Boxboy]

you also have a choice...bigger monitor would be the first... 

What??? my 20" is not big enough?? I thought you were the one who said in another thread that monitor size made no difference??

[CGAR]

but you have a choice, just turn icons off for you

The point here is to wish for an arena that would be set where all players have to play by the same advantages/disadvantages pilot skill, tactics, luck and sight.  Yes I know that some people still have crap for PC's and those people can still play in the arena with icons on and not miss a beat.  I don't have a problem either way, I play with icons on when I'm in the MA arena (where everyone has them on so that I have the same competitive insight that the other players have), just would like to wish for an arena that took them off for all, it would create a slightly different challenge and add a bit more flavor to the WWI era.

[mechanic]

I've hit on a very nice compromise for myself.  Icons size 10.  Enemy forest green, friendly turquoise.

  I do this also, sky-blue friendly icons and different enemy icons depending what mood i'm in.


I think a good option would be that Icons turn them self off at 800yrds or less. So at long range you have icons but when they get close the icons turn themself off for you. I would definitely use a fuction like this if it were possible.

[gyrene81]

What??? my 20" is not big enough?? I thought you were the one who said in another thread that monitor size made no difference??

LOL...I was being a smart arse to your "you have a choice" remark...and you eluded to the fact that you were using a small monitor in that other thread, not a 20!!!

Monitor size really doesn't make a difference if you know what you're doing...but like I also said, if you have trouble seeing things on a small monitor, get a bigger one don't make excuses for poor choices.

[mechanic]

Higher resolutions actualy make spotting dots harder. On a lower resolution screen the single pixel is more obvious than on a huge screen. So really smaller screen would make it easier to spot thing at a distance.

[Karnak]

Higher resolutions actualy make spotting dots harder. On a lower resolution screen the single pixel is more obvious than on a huge screen. So really smaller screen would make it easier to spot thing at a distance.

True, but they also make it harder to get information about heading and attitude once the object is no longer a dot.

[Nr_RaVeN]

This is getting ridiculous..  some of you guys argue for the sake of being difficult and confrontational read Rule #4.

 The flying no icons wish/concept is lost on you.... Lead, follow, or get out of the way.... your doing none of the above...

Listen up... flying no icons is plane and simple... EZ and fun...

Any fool can see a dot moving from left to right or up and down... you have informantion coming in from vox, you see tracers, you know who's base is who's, its very intuitive....

Once in range you can see and have all the info needed to adjust your position... Just like you do with icons on.

In no time you will learn by silhouette and gun site how far way the dot actually is..

The icon only gives your range not heading....

The gun site gives you your range too.....        Its not dead on accurate but close enough for dog fighting adjustments, if you know how to read it.

After a short time you know by dot size what distance your at...  

Its easy..... big monitor, Small monitor, equipment doesn't matter enough......  no excuses..... its a weak argument.

I have been fling no icons in many Sim's with crap equipment. Now I have good equipment. From first hand experience ....didn't mater.



 Remember this obvious point that none of you naysayers seem to realize  

Your opponent knows as much as much about your heading, as you know about theres. It evens the field.  


Flying no icons is very intuitive, its simple.

  The heading, direction and and other info you need becomes very clear. Your focus is much more intense, Also and most important, the action is much more intense.

You think about this.... why would I recommend something boring and impossible to do? If it wasn't a blast I wouldn't request it.

I like action, no icons is INTENCE ACTION  .
You become a hunter your not fishing in a barell any more...


Now I'm no great stick.. I don't claim to be. Its simply my feeling that its a better experience.

After many years of simming I got boared with icons now I like no icons much better. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 Why get in the way of guys that would like a set up like this for WWI? I'm not asking you to convert the MA

 This wish is for a no icon WWI arena with the aircraft being correctly matched CPvAP. One out of 4 four arenas were 3 aren't being used. That simple.

To all the naysayers... if you have the back bone to honestly answer this simple question please do so..

How many hours of no Icon flight do you have under your belt ? ..................

[Boxboy]

LOL...I was being a smart arse to your "you have a choice" remark...and you eluded to the fact that you were using a small monitor in that other thread, not a 20!!!

Monitor size really doesn't make a difference if you know what you're doing...but like I also said, if you have trouble seeing things on a small monitor, get a bigger one don't make excuses for poor choices.

Don't think I EVER stated my monitor size in the other thread, I simply said it makes a difference.  I DID say my old eyes have problems picking up the dots (in FSO my squaddies always see the dots waaaaay before I pick em out). BTW you MUST run at least 1024 rez for high rez package.

[Nr_RaVeN]

I see I'm getting no responce to my very direct question from the naysayers... ... conveniently avoiding the question speaks volumes........

Id recommend getting some experience under your belt before you squawk.... Pepole tend to mock what they don't understand.

Try it you'll like it 
RaVe

[Karnak]

It won't work, as I stated.  The main reason it won't work has nothing to do with the no icons and everything to do with the Central Powers vs Allies aspect of it.  I already explained that to you.  You disagree, not much more to be said.

The discussion about icons here is more academic to my mind.  Talking about the pros and cons of icons in flight sims and how much data is conveyed via a computer vs reality.

[Nr_RaVeN]

 Now no icons is academic? Hmm. I know initially you said you had no problem with No icons, yet later in the post you argued the fact.
 
I'm disingenuous?

Just because you explained CPvAP wont work  to me doesn't make it a fact. I totally disagree with that.

You chose to avoid my Question. No need, your answer is obvious to me. You have no real hands on experience with the no icon environment there for no experience with the type of mind set it draws.

 I don't find your argument credible. Its purely based on a speculated opinion.

Please don't take it as I don't find you credible as I don't know you. I'm sure your a great guy and a good honest person, but your not the final say in what will and wont work.

 I cant speak for HTC,but if I were a betting man Id bet the likely hood of added WWI air craft is very high including bombers.

 WWI many not interest everyone in this comunity, but there is a big WWI comunity out there.

HTC knows it. The addition of WWI is a totally new business opportunity for them. Opens up a new customer base. its about market share pepole. There is nothing wrong with that, its the American way.

The timeing is right to add WWI, its a hot topic in the flight sim comuity out side of AH.
They could grab the entire RoF comunity if they play their cards right, as its hanging in the balance at this moment.


As I explained to you spit 16 are off the chart, but you don't see every one grabbing one.  Based on princel alone... many pepole will challenge themselves.

 Most flying the NI environment are mature enough to maintain some sense of balance . It was happening in the AvA last week guys were swapping sides to even up.

Presumptions like yours are counter productive negative and oppressive.

Why scare folks off  an idea that could be an asset to the sim and HTC?
 
Its something that is very enjoyable. If they build one of the 4 WWI areans to be set up as APvCP no enemy icons, It will get a following be sure.

Seems at this point we are chasing our tails, We should simply agree to disagree  in good faith.

RaVe

[Boxboy]

Ok Rave you convinced me lets try one arena with no icons, but don't look for me there 

[Karnak]

Now no icons is academic? Hmm. I know initially you said you had no problem with No icons, yet later in the post you argued the fact.
 
I'm disingenuous?

Just because you explained CPvAP wont work  to me doesn't make it a fact. I totally disagree with that.

Are you an idiot?  Can you not read?

I said that the discussion was academic.  In other words, I have no horse in the race.  The discussion is interesting for itself.  I did not argue the fact in my post that I have no issue with the "no icon" concept.  You made that up.

I already pointing out that we have nothing to talk about in regards to CPvAP.  You are naively optimistic about that, in my opinion based on my experience.  You disagree.  What more is to be said.

[ScatterFire]

lol.  Myh lack of visual acuity is imposed by requirements of space and family.  So maybe self-imposed.

I seem to not be able to find anywhere on the front page under system requirements where it says "If you don't have at least a 24" monitor running 100 fps then you will be severely handicapped playing against others."

Icons are more of a leveling field than no icons; it evens the playing field for those that can't afford or are otherwise unable to run large monitors.  Otherwise the game turns into a race of the biggest and fastest have distinct advantages.

I would even go as far to say that requiring better hardware is against HTC's best interest.  Those that have the bigger and better are normally more active players that are on all the time and use a lot more resources.  Casual gamers like myself use a lot less server resources.  HTC can comfortably support 10-15 players like myself compared the those more dedicated players.  Yet I'm still paying the same amount per month and have been around as long as a decent percentage of the rest...

PS  "Zoom function"? I don't recall them having those on WW1 aircraft....

So wait, your lack of visual acuity is self imposed and it's all because of the program? Stop playing on a laptop, or hook it up to a bigger screen...you would be surprised at what you can see on a 22 inch monitor using the zoom function...I don't have much problem seeing what I need to see out to 800 yards...yes there are limitations, and they are based on the way objects are rendered, but within normal fighting ranges that you would encounter in any arena...you can very well see what you need to see.

If you want to complain about something, try the ambient lighting effects that don't match real life...that's what makes it difficult to spot other planes, painted or not, low on the deck regardless of what position the sun is in...unless you're very close.

[Krusty]

Not having read through the latest stuff, I noticed one of Batfink's recent posts was here about dots and resolution.

It may be true that at the most extreme range, where every and any plane shows up only as a single pixel, that lower resolutions make that "one pixel" show up a bit more clearly.

HOWEVER, the drawback is that as soon as you get to the range where it becomes 2 pixels... or 3.. or 5, your lower resolution displays total crap as compared to higher resolutions. You can barely tell a plane 200 yards out if you're running at 640x480 as compared to running at 1280x1024.

It's like when they pixellate somebody's face on a TV show to hide their identity. All they're doing is reducing the resolution so that each "pixel" is larger -- and the end result obscures whatever you might want to make out.

Just wanted to mention that. Lower resolution good for spotting 10k dots, but not for IDing anything closer.