Gaston has yet to show anything that says that the scale of that torque is anything like significant or, indeed, that even if it is, that such would make any diff, the effect being present in all the a/c, subject to local differences in prop design. Indeed he says as much when he contends that the off-max turn of the Spit will still best the 190, like setting versus like setting. Or, am I missing some assertion he might be making regarding the lower pitch inertia of the 190A? If so, I'd say, "plausible" but that's not going to help overcome the disk effect, which is a torque and will need to be counteracted regardless of source - thus demanding more pitch torque from the tail surface - not something easy to come by in a "close-coupled" (read, short moment arms) a/c.
His contention on the rest, however, is more clear. He's stating that the 190 a is a better turner at mid-speed off-max than the game credits - yet I see no analytical or test evidence for this assertion - though there is some anecdotal evidence presented. He goes on to dismiss what I feel may be the real turn strength of the 190A - instantaneous turn rate. We are already well-supplied with evidence that it's roll rate is stunning.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,261798.0.html
We need more clarity around his point and, most of all, we need a way to test the hypothesis. That's the only way we'll ever finish this thing.
The scale of the effect is easy to approximate: If the thrust of the propeller is 4000 lbs, and the upper disc half has 2000 lbs, then pulling back on that upper disc half to make it slightly slower is going to require defeating the entire thrust in that disc half to move it back, even by an infinitesimal amount. A suspended weight of 200 lbs lifted by a 100 lbs of force is still going to leave 100 lbs of tension in that rope...
The mitigating factor here is that closer to the spinner axis the backward movement is less than at the prop tip: I hear blade center of thrust was at 2/3rds the height, but max height is only in the center of the rotation in profile view, so the "scientific" way of doing this would be to calculate how high the ENTIRE 4000 lbs center of thrust is displaced into the upper disc half, as is accepted by PJGodzilla as being what actually happens on stick pull, and that height of the 4000 lbs center of thrust will then give us the leverage applied by the prop at full power against the wing's center of lift.
But then you have to take into account the leverage-increasing effect of the prop being at a right-angle to the lenght of the nose, creating a right-angle stress-riser that increase somewhat the actual leverage, given the forward direction of the thrust...
The FW-190A is advantaged, like all radials, by having less upper disc half leverage agains the wing's center of lift due to the shorter nose, and, by extension, less leverage compared to the elevator's tail lenght leverage...
The Spitfire probably has to downthrottle lower for its wingloading advantage to emerge.
The fact is for most of these aircrafts the best sustained turn rate is probably found at around 190-200 MPH, or at least the one that has the smallest radius while STILL equalling the best sustained turn rate, and 160-170 MPH for the Me-109G and Spitfires...
For all these aircrafts except maybe the really heavy ones: P-47, F4U, F6F, speeds between 250 and 350 MPH are the WORST speeds for sustaining turns because their lower overall weight would allow them to perform better in turns below the speeds where the prop disc load is at its highest.
As far as where the REAL Corner Speed is for these aircraft, it is so high it is practically irrelevant for WWII combat that is not in a dive of some sort, as it ie "near the maximum level speed" as tested here in 1989:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,261798.0.html And this, by the way, has been confirmed to me as plausible by an actual aircraft designer... So that 1989 test done by actual modern test pilots is correct in stating the P-51's "Corner Speed" is at around 370 MPH at least, that is, this is around the lowest speed at which 6-7Gs (they tested 6Gs) can be reached....
It is clear why it is so high: At full power, the prop disc load is at its highest at the middle range of speeds, and the effect is so powerful you have to reach into much higher speeds for the elevator's authority to increase (which it doesn't do on all prop fighter types) while the prop disc load is reduced enough to even allow reaching the "structural limit" of 6 or 7 Gs... On the Me-109G-6 the best sustained turn rate speed was found by the Fins to be about 220 MPH, so you have to go all the way down there to find the first real top sustained turn rate, and going much below that to 160 MPH, with lower power, will tighten the radius without reducing the rate, giving a tactical advantage even if the actual turn rate is not increased beyond that of 220 MPH.
In any case, it is obvious the effect effect of the prop on the REAL-LIFE wingloading is measured in the thousands of pounds (maybe one, maybe three...)if a downthrottled FW-190A can decisively beat a full-power Spitfire V in sustained level turns...
Gaston
I'm sure someone here remembers the thread circa 2004-2006 titled "FW-190A Western ace experience", posted here by a relative who was willing to relay questions to the actual pilot... He said he out-turned a tailing P-51D on the deck in TWO 360 degree turns and shot it down, which I did not believe until I understood the problem of downthrottling versus full power... (The P-51D had strained so hard he almost stalled in front of him...)
He is the only source I ever heard speak of field-made aileron hinge "spacers" to increase low-speed sustained turn performance by "catching" the stall... And of the importance of the broad wood prop on low-speed turn performance...
