What do you consider 'skill'?

[uptown]

As was pointed out to me by Drewster after I shot him and his 2 buddies down in a 3v1, I have no skill.  As such, whatever I consider to be skill is a moot point since I lack the basic qualifications to pontificate as to what I consider to be skill.  Maybe one day if I ever achieve such a level that can be considered to be 'skillful' will I be able to enter into this debate.  I have a feeling though that I will never achieve these heights in my lifetime.


ack-ack

I'm glad you're finally coming to your senses. 

[Ack-Ack]

I'm glad you're finally coming to your senses. 

It took me 17 years but finally Drewster's PMs to me after I shot him down made me see the light.  I feel so foolish now.


ack-ack

[palef]

The ability to log on, night after night and have fun without diminishing another's.

That is a skill worth respecting.

Yay! 

[TnDep]

Nice write up Grizz and I'd say your absolutely correct.  I'd just add one point to the dogfight section of using defensive maneuvers, slimming your profile right at the point your opponent has a shot and using the angle overshoot to your advantage.  I'm still working to get better and I got a long ways to go but I only pointed that out because only the good pilots use this technique.  I'm still a skilless dweeb until I can compete with you bud  you got skills 

[TonyJoey]

Good write-up. Another important point, I believe, is the ability to judge E states. With this knowledge, you can apply the necessary move to either gain an adv, get the kill, or egress safely.

[Ack-Ack]

Good write-up. Another important point, I believe, is the ability to judge E states. With this knowledge, you can apply the necessary move to either gain an adv, get the kill, or egress safely.

The ability to judge energy states would fall under the realm of "SA" but you're correct.  It is a vital part of SA and without it, you're not going to survive for very long in the sky.


ack-ack

[BiPoLaR]

i look at it like this. Skill isnt really based on your ability to shoot guys down. Its kind of like being a musician. Ive been a drummer for 29 years. practiced 4 to 6 hours a day for many many years. And it is the time ive spent practicing that got me where i am. So skill is based on Where that persons goal is. Where he sees himself being come X amount of time down the road.

BTW im kind of buzzed on southern comfort right now. So if this is babbling ill edit it later

Me love you long time

[stealth]

A good pilot takes everything that's happened in the event to see what hes learned. To know as well when to come out of a fight or not. Also is able to take any plane into a situation that is bad and know the enemies weak point and also to know his strong point.

[Guppy35]

For some people, logging on and flying around is good enough, and that's fine.  For others who are more competitive, there is a motivation to perform at a high level.  Personally, I find it more enjoyable to shoot down more bad guys than shoot me down, but that's just how I have fun because I am competitive

No complaints about what you wrote Grizz, but I think it applies to folks like yourself who have the time and the competitiveness to take it to that level. I checked your time v mine and you've got 8 times the hours I do in the game this month  

Should you run into me in the MA you ought to beat me silly just based on that.  Your 'skills' would be more finely tuned based on the time in alone.  My only hope would be to give you a halfway decent fight.  Throw in plane types and styles and it's different still.

Don't take this as a shot at you as it isn't meant to be.  It's just where you are in your cartoon combat flying vs someone else.  Any of us that have stuck around long wade through that part of the game along with all the others.

For me, with the limited time I get to play, I would consider it 'skill' to make you work for it before you killed me.   My drive to consider myself a great stick, disappeared back in the Airwarrior days when my wife told me she was tired of staring at the side of my head

Again, not meant as a shot.  In many ways I'm envious of the time to fly and put into becoming a good cartoon pilot..  Right now the real world just doesn't allow it

[stealth]

Theres basically 2 kinds of pilots,theres a pilot who has 1 or 2 tactics he keeps using that works most of the time. Then theres a pilot that just feels what is going on and you'll basically never see that kinda of pilot doing the same maneuver twice,to me that's what a real pilot is.

[WMLute]

Good stuff grizz.

All of those things I work at and try to improve upon.

[Baumer]

Grizz I think that is a very good list, of a subset of skills that someone can acquire to play Aces High to it's fullest. You have identified the important aspects of pure dogfighting, but there are many aspects to this game, and they all take various skills. And I don't mean, or intend, for this to get into a "furball" vs "land grab" discussion.

There are skills to be learned in the ships guns, bombing, or GV's for example. I respect Dr7's shooting skill in a GV, the same way I respect your skill shooting a 30mm (or 999000 in a buff). Also I think it's important to recognize other skills, like Greebo's skins, or Midi's custom terrains for the special event's. They (and others like them) put tremendous amounts of time into things may players take for granted. Like Bipolar said, when you see how much some people put into "Mastering" a certain set of skills it makes it easier to understand and appreciate it.

To me it's more important to see other players working on learning new skills, rather then them doing the same thing over and over.

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now. 

[BiPoLaR]

Imo, some players think 1v1 skill is the end all be all and negate other very important factors.  Here are the most important skills that will dictate 'success' which in itself is a subjective term:

1v1 Ability:
Practicing 1v1s will obviously teach you ACM in a very controlled environment which can then be applied to more dynamic MA situations.  Imo 1v1 takes the most fundamental ACM knowledge to be successful at, but isn't necessarily the most important skill in the MA in being successful.  Being a 1v1 artist doesn't necessarily mean you can handle a 1vX, since a 1v1 requires no global awareness other than the fight at hand.

Aiming:
Probably just as important as ones ability to 1v1 is how well you can aim.  Think of situations where you start off in a 1v1 with an enemy on the fray of icon range.  You miss a couple easy shots and all of a sudden it's a 2v1.  You kill the first guy on your third try but now the other con has you saddled and dead to rights.  Had you killed that bogey on the first try, you would have been able to engage the 2nd con when he was 3k out.  Getting ganged in the MA is directly correlative to one's failure to dispose of threats in a situation they deemed safe.  The speed at which you eliminate threats in the MA will ultimately dictate if you get ganged.

Situation Awareness:
(a)
This is the most instinctual and experience based skill set of them all.  Decision making in a multi plane environment.  With every decision made comes Risk/Reward.  Reward can be defined as a kill, risk defined as death.  Accurate risk/reward assessment is something that can only come with experience.  Aggression can also be defined as ones decision based on their risk/reward assessment.  For example, if one engages four cons despite deciding he has less than a 10% chance of survival, this would be insanely aggressive.  On the other side of the coin, if one avoids an engagement because he has a 10% chance of death, this would be insanely passive.  All of these variables can be juggled into maximizing an individuals killing efficiency.
(b)
Another important aspect of SA, the rate at which you check your views.  How many times/minute do you check all your views?  This number is directly correlative to how clear your understanding of your surrounding is.  You can never check your views too often and if you consistently are missing threats, you need to increase the rate at which you check your views.

Teamwork:
How well does one set up bogeys for his allies and how well does he use his allies for easy kills?  You could call this being an 'opportunist', knowing the exact time to engage a con when he is clearly preoccupied or in an very unfavorable position, but this is actually a skill, being able to see this stuff.  

Boom and Zoom:
How well does one retain advantage against overwhelming odds below him?  Anybody can dive in and kill someone, but I evaluate one's B&Z ability in being able to kill bogeys below while being able to keep an advantage over the swarm.  Diving in, turning, and getting ganged would be an extremely poor use of this altitude advantage.

Dogfighting:
Being able to stay alive in a dogfight where multiple cons are trying to turn/B&z you.  I would argue this skill is actually the pinnacle of being versatile in all other sets, 1v1, Aiming, SA, all of which are equally important to being adequate in this skill.  You can be a great 1v1 pilot but end up ultimately being inadequate in a dogfight due to lack of SA or aim.  There's nothing great about saddling up a bogey just to get picked by one you didn't see.


These are the skills of a fighter as I see them in the MA.  Imo, the ones who are most versatile in all the skills listed are the better pilots, not just being great in any one category.  What do you consider in defining one's skill?

y0 B you know i love you to death bro. We're real life friends. But your bellybutton needs to step away from the game a while. You are WAYYYY to far in to it. Go out get drunk and take home a fattie. Take pics and send to me

[grizz441]

y0 B you know i love you to death bro. We're real life friends. But your bellybutton needs to step away from the game a while. You are WAYYYY to far in to it. Go out get drunk and take home a fattie. Take pics and send to me

Put the southern comfort away for the night

[Banshee7]

<snip>

It's taken me 3 years, but I finally see and agree with your standpoint, Dan.  I don't log in enough to worry about my flying abilities versus someone else's.  I simply just enjoy logging on chatting with friends I've made over the years or flying with them and trying to see how long it takes before I die.  I don't have that certain urge I used to get to start mouthing on 200 anymore...nothing other than a few sarcastic or witty remarks.  The ability to just log on and have fun no matter what the situations might be in game is, to me, the greatest skill ever.


Grizz, that's a good write up, man.  You put a lot of thought into stuff like that.  

#S#




Banshee7