Who said the FW190 is not a good Jabo?

[Wotan]

We could use the following for 190 Jabo.
A 190D9 option to carry 4 50kg underwing bombs.

A 1000kg bomb for 190F8. (also to Ju88)

Armor piercing 20mm ammo modeling for 190f8.

Time delay fuzes for 190f8 bombs.

More armor to 190f8, apparently the extra weight is modeled while the extra protection is not.

24 Panzerblitz 55mm HEAT rockets under the wings.

More options to carry bombs/fuel under the wings.

In which sentence do you see "sci-fi" loadouts

Wotan has 31 kills and has been killed 10 times in the Fw 190F-8.

The 190f8 is a good plane but it could carry more then its current loadout. If asking for its options to be expanded is a "whine" ......... then so what dont read it.

edit

brady knows far greater then you about ord loadouts and he has posted about them. In this his thread you can see he is tired of banging his head against the "your a whiner" whiner crew.

[ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

[GRUNHERZ]

ra

No guns were removed on either 190F8 or 190D9 to mount diffrent ground attack weapon loads. Why not allow the 55mm HEAT rockets. Are rockets sci-fi? Are cluster bombs sci-fi? toejam the LW 109Es widely used an early "cluster bomb" design during the June 1941 Barbarossa attack against Riussia. Is an in service 1941 weapon system sci-fi to you? Is armor piercing 20mm antitank ammo sci-fi as well? There is evidence from tests that the AH 190F8 MG151 models no  AP ammo whatsover, look that up if you dont belive me. None of these loadouts required the removal of armor either.

These were all serivce loads that are fair to add to the AH 190s and 109s.


My most imortant requests are.

1000kg bomb for the 190 f8, also for Ju88.

24 55mm HEAT rockets for the 190s.

Cluster bombs for 190 and 109. The most widely used model contained 96 2kb bombs in a typical blunt nosed bomb like case. Actually it looks identical to modern CBUs.

Ability for Dora to mount 4 50kg bombs on the wings, mounting identical to 190f8.

Abilty for the 190f8 to carry a more diverse wing loadout. Tanks or bombs.

20mm armor piercing ammo mix for the 190f8.

Time delay fuzes for 190F8 bombs. (This one is risky due to possible use as carbomb trick so Im not sure it should be done without some wat to solve that issue)


ra, my friend, now why dont you go ask HTC to eliminate all those "sci-fi" bombs and rockets all the other planes have....  

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: GRUNHERZ ]

[Wotan]

if you worried so much about "rare" loadouts thats onething.

But the 190f8 is about as rare you get in the main. adding rockets to it isnt going to make any less rare. Couple that with other "rare" things that are found in the main (50cal lancs chogs arados 152s etc...) I dont think that rarity should automatically eliminate any option. As it stands now rarity doesn't exclude a lot of other things.

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

[minus]

190f8 with more options and  something also for 262 plzz i realy miss the WR21 rocket for it, with 10 those rocket even turbo laser dead star,, b17 will be never safe, just like real life  

[Glasses]

Ra, I don't know where this remark about the 190 F8 having a rare load out came from, it did carry at least 2 under wing 250kg(500pounder) bombs . The F8 was extensively used in the Eastern Front and took about most air to ground attack operations of the Stuka. By no means the use of rockets and these heavy bombs was rare.

  It indeed was used throught the summer of 1944 right up until the end of hostilities. The 190 F8s could even carry 2 under wing Fuel tanks for long operations.

  The D9 was used as Jabo from the period of Dec '44 til' March 1945. Amazing how they as their whole country was being destroyed around them, they continued to launch operations and at least make a delivery of their weapons,not neccesarily effective, but without suffering heavy casualties.

   The 190 F8 at least, is under powered for its intended role of carrying out ground attack operations, it had a wide selection of ammo. I would compare it as to having to send a knight to fight a battle fully armored at sea,it just doesn't make sense. This aircraft had strengthened wings to support the weight of the added bombs and rockets it's  just a simple request to see this aircraft corrected with at least a portion of its intended Jabo weapons.

P.S. Animal how would it take off?... How does the Jug take off?    

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: Glasses ]

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: Glasses ]

[R4M]

Originally posted by ra:

To MAKE IT a good jabo by your standards would require allowing ord loadouts which were never or rarely ever used in combat, and some of which would require that guns and armor be removed.  I don't think the AH FM is set up for that.  

That is complete roadkill, RA.

-The Fw190F8 could carry one 1000kg bomb in the centerline rack without ANY modification.

-The Fw190F8 could carry FOUR 50kg bombs inthe centerline rack without ANY modification (I think it could carry up to 8, but not sure)

-The FW190F8 could carry 250kg bombs in the wings with NO modification.

-The Fw190F8 could carry Drop tanks in the wings with NO modification.

-The Fw190F8 could carry R4M rockets with NO modification (other than wooden racks to carry them)...granted those were rare...but...

-The Fw190F8 could carry PanzerBlitz rockets with NO modification other than the wing instalation...(no more modification than what a tiffie needs to carry eight rockets)


-The Fw190F8 flew operationally without the 13mm machineguns A LOT. (in fact many 190As flew without hte MGs either...but WE DONT HAVE THE OPTION TO --NOT-- FLY WITH MG)


ALL---I remark---ALL the above mentioned weapons were WIDELY used in fw190F8 in combat, Xcept for the R4M rockets.

Sci-Fi?...Sci-fi is a P47D30 with 100% fuel, MG overload, 2500lbs of bombs and 10 HVAR rockets.

THAT is Sci-fi. Not a Fw190F8 with 250kg boms on the wing, dangit.  

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[ra]

R4M, unfortunately the 50kg centerline bombs would be useless here.  I'd like to see proof that the 190 ever carried 250kg on the wings in combat.  I've seen 1 picture of it, on the ground.  And the air to ground rockets were only rarely used, semi-experimentally in combat.  By 1944 most of the pilots were barely given any training to fly the plane, let alone fire rockets with an effective range of 300 meters.  The Jabo units stuck mostly with dumb bombs which were comparativly easy to use.  The aircraft mounted Panzerblitz and Panzerschreck and wire guided missiles and recoiless guns were all tested in combat but I've never seen proof that any unit ever used them to actually get the job done.  And if you read my post you would see I agree about the US jabo loadouts.  

Wotan, I think I recall someone posting a scan of drawings of all kind of loadouts for the 190F8, was that Brady's post?  Drawings proove nothing.  I also recall a link to a website that referred to the 190F8-U1 as carrying something like 1x500kg and 2x250kg.  However I've only ever seen the 190F8-U1 described as a 2-seat trainer.  I think RAFM Hendon may even have one on display.  Brady probably knows more than I do, but he, and the rest of you, haven't convinced me that what you want in AH is historically realistic.  I've never called anyone a whiner on this issue, I want all planes to have realisitic loadouts, not rare configurations no one can proove saw significant use.  

The 190F8 was designed to serve as a jack of all trades jabo so it was tested with all sorts of things.  But combat units don't go for fancy new toys when their job is already incredibly dangerous.  You guys are using the F8's experimental history has an excuse to bring all sorts of gamey weapons into the game.  

ra

[Raubvogel]

And the air to ground rockets were only rarely used, semi-experimentally in combat.

Well, to put it bluntly, that's just bullchit. I'd like to see your source for that. The Panzerblitz was a R4M rocket modified with a shaped charge warhead. Nothing experimental about it; it was used quite a bit.

[HoHun]

Hi Ra,

The reason the 250 kg wing bombs saw little use operationally was that the 4 x 50 kg bombs were more effective for the missions flown by the Focke-Wulf fighter bombers.

If Aces High doesn't accurately portray the effectiveness of the 4 x 50 kg bombs, or if the ground attack missions in Aces High don't portray the historical reality correctly, I don't see any reason to disallow the 2 x 250 kg wing bomb option.

That the Focke-Wulf was technically capable of carrying 2 x 250 kg wing bombs - in addition to a fuselage bomb - should be beyond doubt.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)