MY ARENA CAP IDEA

[The Fugitive]

not small caps, cap fixed at whatever is the max for that map. the really big maps maybe 600-800?, small maps like pizza 400-500? overcrowding is partially a function of the terrain design, number of bases overall, number of bases on each front etc.

I think quite a few players have suggested a big map rotation in LWA (since historically this is where players look for numbers) and a small map rotation in LWB, seems like quite a good idea

If I remember right your Euro time right? One arena is fine for that time because the numbers aren't so big. When the US starts coming in the first arena hits its cap of 400-500 and then the next 200 people complain about not being able to get into the "capped" arena AND complain about the lack of fights due to low numbers in the arena that is available. Starting the dynamic caps at the time they do brings up the totals in the two fairly evenly. Is it perfect, nope. There will always be someone complaining.

With the numbers available to HTC they KNOW that a single arena will hurt their business. Why people insist on trying to convince them to go that route anyway is just stupid. It's like trying to tell a cop not to give you a speeding ticket because you were in a hurry to get home to watch your favorite TV show.... it just ain't going to work.

People on there own are just to dumb to handle a cap on their own so it must be forced on them... herd mentality. The only way to do away with the caps is to change human nature... good luck with that.  

[SlapShot]

All you guys that are asking for fixed caps on arenas, for whatever reason, will be the first people back onto this forum the instant you can't get into the arena that you want screaming that it sucks.

So say Orange has a small map and it's capped at 400 at 7 pm EST and all your "buddies" or squad are in Orange ... it will most likely stay capped for the remainder of the night ... and you try to log in at 7:10 pm EST ... now what ?

Lots of this ...

[Skuzzy]

not small caps, cap fixed at whatever is the max for that map. the really big maps maybe 600-800?, small maps like pizza 400-500? overcrowding is partially a function of the terrain design, number of bases overall, number of bases on each front etc.

I think quite a few players have suggested a big map rotation in LWA (since historically this is where players look for numbers) and a small map rotation in LWB, seems like quite a good idea

That does not solve the unhealthy arena environment.  If you think it does, please elaborate.

[Lusche]

I wish I had any solution.

But most unfortunately I have not.

I was able to (grudingly) accept the arena caps for a long time, because I was often able to fly very late at night, during US prime times which is something like 2-5 am here.
However I currently can not play at those unhealthy times anymore, being largely stuck on my "primetime", early-late evening.

And while two 400 player arenas may be better for both gameplay and HTC business than a 800 player single one, having two arenas at 150(closed)+80(open) players instead of one 230 player arena sucks for me.
It was a really bad moment for my (and purely subjective) gameplay experience, when the caps were enabled again recently. And being a solo flyier, I do even have the advantage on not having any squaddies in the closed arena that I absolutely have to join.

I would hate to quit, but at the moment I have trouble to find any fun in logging in at 7-9pm and seeing ~300 players online, but the only arena available to me has like 20-80 players.
Yes, I may be a spoiled brat ("back in 19XX we never had more than 80 players at all"). But it is defenitely not that kind of multi-player experience I had when joining AH.

But letting caps kick in at a later time would create much bigger imbalance between the two LW arenas, and the "enable caps at 400 then kick everybody for enforcing a quick balance between the arenas" would absolutely produce a storm on this BBS.

In other words: I'm just out of luck.  
The only minor "fix" for me right now is to log in before 7PM to at least secure me a spot in the "bigger" arena. But even that ain't really fun when you see all battles literally "drying out" for ever sinking player numbers in LWO. And it's not very fair but selfish too.

[RTHolmes]

One arena is fine for that time because the numbers aren't so big. etc.

why do people keep talking about one arena? sure theres a few players that want just one TT syle LWA, but im sure most want 2 arenas like we have now, just without all the problems caused by caps. pls reread my post

That does not solve the unhealthy arena environment.  If you think it does, please elaborate.

as far as I can work out the unhealthy environment is/was caused by too many players on one map. for a given map there will be a critical mass for a decent fight at the low number end, and at the other end a number where overcrowding causes gameplay issues. an appropriate hard upper cap for each map eliminates the unhealthy environment.

[The Fugitive]

I said one arena because that is what it turns into. You have 2 arenas, as arena "A" fills to cap of 400, you basically have only one arena as most people will populate that arena,  then arena "B" begins to fill. At this time you still only have one arena because the other is capped and closed, most likely for the night with only small changes as people log out and new go in..

So having 2 or 3 arenas with a 400 cap will still make only one arena because people always work to get into "the arena" which ever it is. With the dynamic caps it starts to force people into the other arenas at lower numbers making the game playable in two arenas, not one.

[Skuzzy]

why do people keep talking about one arena? sure theres a few players that want just one TT syle LWA, but im sure most want 2 arenas like we have now, just without all the problems caused by caps. pls reread my post


as far as I can work out the unhealthy environment is/was caused by too many players on one map. for a given map there will be a critical mass for a decent fight at the low number end, and at the other end a number where overcrowding causes gameplay issues. an appropriate hard upper cap for each map eliminates the unhealthy environment.

As Lusche pointed out, there is a minimum level at what time an arena is not fun to play in either.  No matter what hard upper limit you pick, there will be a time period where the minimum level is not met.  Dynamic caps does not eliminate that, but it does help to minimize the length of time the arena is below the lower level.

Set the upper limit to 450 for a static cap and as soon as it is reached, the complaints will start rolling in as now players are forced into an arena with 10 or 15 players for a longer period of time.  Raising the cap exacerbates the problem.  Lowering the cap would reduce the problem but create another one.

There will always be a cap.  There has to be.  The goal is to find a way to populate more than one arena at a time while keeping both (or more) fun to play in.

Please keep in mind, I cannot effect change.  I am not privvy to those discussions.  I am just soliciting for ideas we might not have thought of or tried.

[Larry]

Skuzzy by unhealthy do you mean lag issues or hording? If its hording then how about one large arena with a setting that sets a limit for planes that can up from fields in an hour or half hour.

[Kazaa]

There just aren't enough players to support a healthy environment outside of US prime time. I was sick to death playing in Orange, with a huge map and only 100-150 players populating it.

Also, Skuzzy, would you be able to post AH2's subscription growth since day one to community? I would love to take a look at the numbers just out of interest.

[kvuo75]

I would hate to quit, but at the moment I have trouble to find any fun in logging in at 7-9pm and seeing ~300 players online, but the only arena available to me has like 20-80 players.

currently, isn't the cap not in effect until a certain time?.. I figure, if the caps were in place 24 hrs a day, you wouldnt end up with a seriously over-cap arena when the caps magically kick in..

so instead of 200 in orange and 20 in blue, 110 in each..

then it would make orange less attractive, and people truly hopefully finally treat both arenas equally, instead of always piling into orange because they can, when the cap's not in effect..
 

[Lusche]

currently, isn't the cap not in effect until a certain time?.. I figure, if the caps were in place 24 hrs a day, you wouldnt end up with a seriously over-cap arena when the caps magically kick in..

so instead of 200 in orange and 20 in blue, 110 in each..

Which basically would not change anything for us euro players.

From my viewpoint, the numbers are about this: 10am-2pm something like 80-100 players total, most of them in LWO.
From 2PM the numbers are slowly rising up to about 200 players in the early evening. Then, caps kick in at 7pm.
The battles in LWO are slowly dying for lack of new players entering the arena, and many of the remaining just sitting in tower to reserve their spot.

Making the caps kick in earlier wouldn't change anything in player distribution, unless you set caps minimum as low as 40 players.

Right now, the caps are kicking in at a time of fastest growth, wich makes sense.

It's just that I live in the wrong timezone for that. Would I be an American player, I would have little to none trouble with them (As I mentioned above, I played at typical US times for a long time). But being in the Euro timezone, it makes all the difference.

[RTHolmes]

eesh quite difficult to discuss the effects of having no dynamic caps at all and just using hard caps when everyone still has the dynamic cap mindset.

imagine the biggest map we have in LWO. the hard cap would be whatever the map can support without overcrouding becoming an issue. recently ive seen 600-700 in LWO with no major problems, so say 750 hard cap. now have a small map in LWB, one that can handle say 450.

from what ive seen the last few weeks, most people (90%?) like to fly in a busy arena (LWO). regardless of what those 90% think is "a decent fight" or what most would consider the critical mass for fun in an arena there are another 10% of players who are still happier to fly in LWB for whatever reason. they choose to fly in an arena with numbers so low that 90% wouldnt bother. it seems to me that these 10% are the ones that would have been put off by the original single 850 cap LWA.

of course there will still be a point where players are forced into LWB, when LWO is full at 750 players. there will be at least another 80ish players in LWB (our 10%) so the cap only effects peoples choice when there are 830+ players online. ie primetime.

thing is, this is predictable, we know when LWO is likely to be full or almost full, which is alot easier to deal with than the dynamic caps. a common cap whine is "but I want to fly with my squaddies in LWO!" the usual answer is "well get them to come to LWB!" nice idea but the dynamic caps make it impossible to work that way. you get them to come to LWB, then another squaddie logs in and because the caps have changed he cant get into LWB...

the difference between hard caps and dynamic caps is that the hard cap only effects players' choice at predictable times of the week/day where its downsides are reduced and can even be planned for, whereas the dynamic cap effects players choices almost constantly.

[Ruler2]

Skuzzy, the best, and possibly most whine-preventing fix I see is to not only make more maps, but to switch them as more and more or less and less people are in an arena. If there is an arena with very few people in it, switch the map to ndisles or a new map that can be made. If there are lots of people in an arena and the horde is building up, switch the map to a large one with multiple fronts.

[Lusche]

Skuzzy, the best, and possibly most whine-preventing fix I see is to not only make more maps, but to switch them as more and more or less and less people are in an arena.

This will result more whines, MANY more, not less.

Maps would be switched several times a day, which would fully remove any kind of "strategic" gameplay.

[oTRALFZo]

Skuzzy by unhealthy do you mean lag issues or hording? If its hording then how about one large arena with a setting that sets a limit for planes that can up from fields in an hour or half hour.

I am not clear on this either. Exactly what is "Unhealthy" about so many people in one arena?. Especially if its the choice of the guy and the other 400 people that joined that arena. To me, its just as unhealthy as the guy being forced to join the "other" arena and being ganged and swarmed by guys with the #s or flying to some target with about 100 other guys.

People fly the 2 arenas for various reasons.1) ENY 2) Map sux in one arena  (my biggest one) 3) squaddies are in that arena 4) they wanna milkrun 5) they wanna kill the milkrunners and 6) just cuz they want too. Now Caps are in place and elliminate choices we have. There wasnt one peep of whine that there were too many players in one arena when caps were off so why does this make the gaming enviroment unhealthy?