Real Gun Film. How much hipsano does it take to light up a B17?

[Pongo]

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=53552
Some pretty good shots in there, some crazy bad ones.
That mossie pilot was likely pretty Pissed off.

[RTHolmes]

got to ask - why were USAAF strafing B-17s and shooting at mossies?

[hammer]

My guess is they were trying to destroy planes that landed largely intact but behind enemy lines.

[Pongo]

Well, I would guess the guy shooting a the mossie at 100 yards wasnt as good at recognizing a mossie as we are. But you will notice it was a short burst.
The Buff looks like it is down intact behind enemy lines I guess.

[RTHolmes]

ok, makes sense. the mossies sadly an example of friendly fire (looks like 2 different ones to me). doing a little research it seems that it was pretty much open season on mossies for the 4FG. especially surprising for this pilot as a member of 335FS because they had converted from 121 (Eagle) Squadron RAF so should have had a pretty good idea what RAF aircraft looked like. (although I dont believe 2nd Lt Lewis flew with 121sqn, must have joined later)

cant find out where 335FS were flying on 6/10/1944, but heres the mossie losses for that day:

ML996 Mosquito B.XVI 105s Dortmund            Lost without trace from intruder mission
MM113 Mosquito B.XVI 571s Berlin              Abandoned over target-area during intruder mission
HR193 Mosquito FB.VI 107s Osnabrück           Failed to return from intruder mission
NS522 Mosquito PR.XVI 140s Friesische Inseln  Failed to return from reconnaissance
HK179 Mosquito XII 307s Coltishall            Swung on take-off and hit parked Tempests
HK499 Mosquito XIII 29s Handorf               Failed to return from intruder mission
HK504 Mosquito XIII 29s Stade                 Failed to return from intruder mission
HK503 Mosquito XIII 409s Le Culot             Bellylanded due to engine failure during sweep
MM574 Mosquito XIII 409s Bruxelles            Damaged by débris from Ju-188; engine cut and abandoned

[Guppy35]

We did this one in another thread that I can't find at the moment.

Two 4th pilot's 'shared' the Mossie, ID'd as a 410 I believe.  Crew of the Mossie was killed

17 was destroyed on the ground after a forced landing.  Fairly common practice with downed birds that intact.

[RTHolmes]

well, swastikas apart, the 410 and mossie do look similar.

[Pongo]

and the mossie had LIGHT losses compared to other planes. Amazing what total war looks like.

[BaldEagl]

Well, I would guess the guy shooting a the mossie at 100 yards wasnt as good at recognizing a mossie as we are.

Yep.  He probably had icons turned off.

[Krusty]

It takes far less rounds to down a plane in flight and with living crew onboard than it does to blow up a parked stationary plane, FYI.

Can't kill the flight crew. Can't stop the engines. Can't disrupt lift by tearing chunks out of the wings. It's already on the ground. Most of the stuff that would make it fall out of the air and hit the ground --- well it's already on the ground.

[bozon]

nasty business those 4th FG guys and the mossie. I don't know who the got it wrong being so close to it and didn't see the RAF roundels after flying past it?

About a minute later there is one plane flying THROUGH tree on a strafing run.

[mechanic]

Sad that a mossie got shot down by friendly fire. On the other hand perhaps the mossie crew could have been paying more attention and evaded attack for long enough to get a possitive ID. I don't know, they didn't even seem to notice the fighter behind them firing. Maybe they did but ID'ed it as friendly, who knows. Such is war. 

[jay]

this is off topic but...i had some WWII gun film (idk which plane it was from) but i had to sell them when money was tight   

[kingcobradude]

I can totally see the CO of those guys yelling at the pilots for friendly fire

[Scherf]

ok, makes sense. the mossies sadly an example of friendly fire (looks like 2 different ones to me). doing a little research it seems that it was pretty much open season on mossies for the 4FG. especially surprising for this pilot as a member of 335FS because they had converted from 121 (Eagle) Squadron RAF so should have had a pretty good idea what RAF aircraft looked like. (although I dont believe 2nd Lt Lewis flew with 121sqn, must have joined later)

cant find out where 335FS were flying on 6/10/1944, but heres the mossie losses for that day:

ML996 Mosquito B.XVI 105s Dortmund            Lost without trace from intruder mission
MM113 Mosquito B.XVI 571s Berlin              Abandoned over target-area during intruder mission
HR193 Mosquito FB.VI 107s Osnabrück           Failed to return from intruder mission
NS522 Mosquito PR.XVI 140s Friesische Inseln  Failed to return from reconnaissance
HK179 Mosquito XII 307s Coltishall            Swung on take-off and hit parked Tempests
HK499 Mosquito XIII 29s Handorf               Failed to return from intruder mission
HK504 Mosquito XIII 29s Stade                 Failed to return from intruder mission
HK503 Mosquito XIII 409s Le Culot             Bellylanded due to engine failure during sweep
MM574 Mosquito XIII 409s Bruxelles            Damaged by débris from Ju-188; engine cut and abandoned

Thomas and Shores ("2nd Tactical Air Force") say it was the 140 Squadron machine, F/L A.E. Palmer and F/S D. Gardner both killed. Four days earlier, another 140 Squadron aircraft had been shot down by Thunderbolts.

So far as I can determine, 140 lost one crew to German flak, and possibly another to a 262, with third aircraft being damaged by the Luftwaffe but returning safely.