Boston/A-20 Upgrade.

[lyric1]

If either of these aircraft are updated I would like to see a few options added that could be included
& a few that should be added as they were fitted as standard on these airframes.





First off the ventral gun if you read the page below you will see this is an option that should be standard with the appropriate caliber weapon.



Now if you read the above page you would have noticed that the Boston had standard a feature to fly the plane from the gunners seat if in a situation the pilot was incapacitated. This is a feature that would be of great use when an enemy plane is on your tail. In AHII there is almost nothing you can do if they are on your dead 6 as the rear gun wont fire through your tail. It will at least give you the chance to move & fire at the same time to get a shot at the plane behind you especially in the formation mode.

Also if the pilot was to die in AHII it would be an instant loss of aircraft. Not if this was added as other crew personal could fly it from another position.

Rockets look to be an option at least for the A20 this portion at least proves that they did see combat with them mounted in the Pacific.







Now did the Boston have rockets mounted? Well yes... did they see combat use? I am not to sure about that? I can't find evidence either way. The picture below with it's statement that the very plane pictured was sent on to other units it may have had the rocket option as well & was used?



Some other Boston pics with rockets.





Extra fuel tank? I don't think it would be used in AHII how ever it was an option.



Torpedo's? A20's had them and the Russians used them quite a bit.







Aerial mines? Should this be added...? Probably not although it could be a lot of fun in terms of a new aspect of game play & just the whine factor of some one loosing a 262 to a bunch of mines kicked out by a formation of Bostons is priceless.





ATV Boston? & if we get dirt run ways there is always this.

[guncrasher]

mines were prolly one of those things that are wishful thinking for what i read.

semp

[lyric1]

mines were prolly one of those things that are wishful thinking for what i read.

semp

In terms of the game or actual use? They did use them but did not work very well. I would imagine the bomber crews just flew around them as the pilots would easily have seen them. Not so in AHII if you dropped them in front of bombers as they were in the bomb site they would fly right in to them as we only have a one man crew.

[Tilt]

Would love to see the ventral gun and torps added to the Boston/A20G.

[cobia38]

 torps and quad 20mm and rockets yesssss 
  ventral gun is waste of pixals imo
 

[lyric1]

torps and quad 20mm and rockets yesssss 
  ventral gun is waste of pixals imo
 

Well 20 mm's gets in to a completely differant aircraft if your talking about P-70's. Would the ventral gun be of great use in AHII? I would have to say no but it appears the gun was standard from the factory & should be on the aircraft. It would be akin to leaving off the TBM & Ju-88 ventral gun.

[Ack-Ack]

Well 20 mm's gets in to a completely differant aircraft if your talking about P-70's. Would the ventral gun be of great use in AHII? I would have to say no but it appears the gun was standard from the factory & should be on the aircraft. It would be akin to leaving off the TBM & Ju-88 ventral gun.

The first production run of the USAAF A-20Gs of 250 or so came out of the factory with the 4x 20mm nose weapon package.  A large number of these were deployed to a couple of USAAF bomber groups in the PTO for testing and evaluation in combat.  The pilots really didn't care for them, the 20mm cannons proved to be unreliable and prone to jamming and the consensus of the pilots were that machine guns were just as effective.  The remaining A-20Gs out of the pool of 250 were either converted back to 6x-8x .50 caliber machine guns or given to the Soviets under Lend-Lease with the 4x 20mm cannon intact.  The Soviets also received additional A-20G through Lend-Lease that came in both 4x 20mm and multi-machine gun nose weapon packages.

I believe the reason why the ventral gun was initially left off the A-20G was at the time Pyro could not find any conclusive pictures or data that showed the ventral gun as being part of the A-20G production run.


ack-ack

[Seadog36]

Great research

[Karnak]

One thing I am curious about is the performance.  I have tried to find data on it, but everything I have found lists significantly lower performance than either the Boston Mk III or A-20G have in AH.  I haven't found much as it doesn't seem to be a commonly documented feature of it and I haven't searched that deeply yet.

Does anybody have some good information about it?

[lyric1]

The first production run of the USAAF A-20Gs of 250 or so came out of the factory with the 4x 20mm nose weapon package.
  
I believe the reason why the ventral gun was initially left off the A-20G was at the time Pyro could not find any conclusive pictures or data that showed the ventral gun as being part of the A-20G production run.


ack-ack

You are correct just read a little more into the new book I have & came across this page. Since our A-20-G is not listed with what type of A-20-G it is I would say it should be an option.



I came across this Russian web site on A20's.
http://www.bellabs.ru/51/News.html

It is full of great information & should be able to help HTC solve the ventral gun issue as it has pictures of several  here is a few.

[lyric1]

One thing I am curious about is the performance.  I have tried to find data on it, but everything I have found lists significantly lower performance than either the Boston Mk III or A-20G have in AH.  I haven't found much as it doesn't seem to be a commonly documented feature of it and I haven't searched that deeply yet.

Does anybody have some good information about it?

Close as I can get you at this point.





http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/More_A-20Havoc_Stuff.html

[lyric1]

Smoke screens as well.

Could be a lot of fun or be very annoying I guess we wont see this as they had issues with the PT boat smoke screen if I recall correctly.
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1028

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/asstd3/503-nadzab1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww2/units/503-para.htm&usg=__54JrWfJ4vaOIgZFDyZC5vMkLARI=&h=264&w=450&sz=41&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=UIk_oZ7FcMSAKM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsmoke%2Bscreens%2Bby%2Ba20%2527s%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GGLL_enUS358US358%26tbs%3Disch:1

[AWwrgwy]

1.  You can fly from the gunner's position now.  Just no elevator control.  Rudder controls = elevators.  Throttle is kind of up and down.  At the very least, I've landed a bomber from a gunner position before.

2.  Just because there was an option does not mean that it was ever equipped or employed.  Find it deployed and serving in combat in squadron strength....

3.  Rockets and possibly torps look like a field modification.  IIRC no field mods allowed.  Factory standard only.


wrongway

[TOMCAT21]

Well done Lyric ! in fact the other day I saw some pics of the A20 with 3 rockets under each wing. wish i remembered the site. to go with that A20's did carry parafrag bombs(50 lb white phosphorous or Kenney cocktails) and did skip bombing against shipping. Once again great job ! +2

[lyric1]

1.  You can fly from the gunner's position now.  Just no elevator control.  Rudder controls = elevators.  Throttle is kind of up and down.  At the very least, I've landed a bomber from a gunner position before.

2. Just because there was an option does not mean that it was ever equipped or employed. Find it deployed and serving in combat in squadron strength....
3. Rockets and possibly torps look like a field modification.  IIRC no field mods allowed. Factory standard only.


wrongway

1. Yes that is right as far as AHII is concerned. The way I understand it the Boston had control of all control surfaces & throttle from the gunners position.

2. Specifically what option are you talking about?

3. If no field modifications are allowed then we better get rid of every B-25C strafer we have. As to the best of my knowledge nearly all of those were not done at the factory & most of those were done in Australia along with most of the Fifth air force updates. Most of what I have posted in this thread is under the assumption that perk for ords is still on the plate some were down the line anyways. If so all of the above would be acceptable.

I hope we get the ord package for perks as the list of stuff the Russians did to the A-20 would make this thing a monster in AHII for example 20mm gun pods for their night fighters/rear facing rockets for defense just to name a few.