Thank Heaven for Squeekers and Newbies

[TheRapier]

Just a thought for folks.

If what is happening with FA is an example (and it is), I'm going to make a plea for folks to think about how they treat new people coming into this game. I know it won't make any difference to the folks that have their minds made up, but it might for people who are on the fence.

I work in the game industry and I can tell you that the flight genre is getting squeezed. As a percentage of the overall game sales it has dropped precipitately from the heady days of the late 1990s. MMO air combat games are getting fewer in number with fewer players. PC games in general have to compete in the public's mind with consoles which offer a lot of "gaming" for a relatively more palatable price than PC games.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that within 5 years, this as a genre could practically disappear. It doesn't have to be that way, and you can do something about it.

Traditionally, this genre has had a "hazing" mentality about new people coming in, aka, "I came up the hard way and other people should too". This genre has unique problems/challenges compared to other games.

1. Hardware requirement that are unusual. Most people won't buy a flight rig unless they are serious. These aren't cheap. You can spend as much on the rig as a console costs.
2. Specialized knowledge/skill requirement. Flying air combat isn't easy and the learning curve is brutal.

The point is, it is already tough to get started here.

If we want to continue playing these games, we should be helping people out, not driving them away. It is in our own self interest. Personally, I love this genre and want to see it continue and grow, but it will only happen if the people in it take a more enlightened view. There are plenty of examples of hobbies that have grown over time because a few enthusiastic people have taken the time to nurture others.

That means:

1. Nitwits that like to pretend they are newbies and ask stupid questions over and over again, should find a life. You ain't helpin!
2. When someone new comes in and sincerely asks a question and you have the time, try and help them. What matters the most is that they know someone wants them to be successful.

That's all it takes folks and you can insure a lifetime of fun and great community. To me it seems to be a no brainer, but I'm absolutely sure that someone can and will argue the opposite point. Viva la difference! 

[Ramon]

Good Advice and well said!   I think we do forget how hard it is to get started.  I will do my part. 

[JunkyII]

Some people take advice wrong. Today I was flying a Mossie and a 109 came down from 15k to kill me, hes angle of attack was too steep and he blew his E all in one fail stroke. I sent him a PM saying dont give up your advantage too fast, try to yo yo into better postion for an attack but he replyed all pissed off. I told him just advice and he ended up apologizing for the words he sent and said thanks.


The people coming in have to be able to take contructive critism, just like in most R/L stuff.....if they cant its their own fault....just sayin...

[Karnak]

I was trying to help eaglefly with his sound issues a couple nights ago.  It was very hard due to his poor English.  I did see him on again last night though.

[ZetaNine]

Just a thought for folks.

If what is happening with FA is an example (and it is), I'm going to make a plea for folks to think about how they treat new people coming into this game. I know it won't make any difference to the folks that have their minds made up, but it might for people who are on the fence.

I work in the game industry and I can tell you that the flight genre is getting squeezed. As a percentage of the overall game sales it has dropped precipitately from the heady days of the late 1990s. MMO air combat games are getting fewer in number with fewer players. PC games in general have to compete in the public's mind with consoles which offer a lot of "gaming" for a relatively more palatable price than PC games.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that within 5 years, this as a genre could practically disappear. It doesn't have to be that way, and you can do something about it.

Traditionally, this genre has had a "hazing" mentality about new people coming in, aka, "I came up the hard way and other people should too". This genre has unique problems/challenges compared to other games.

1. Hardware requirement that are unusual. Most people won't buy a flight rig unless they are serious. These aren't cheap. You can spend as much on the rig as a console costs.
2. Specialized knowledge/skill requirement. Flying air combat isn't easy and the learning curve is brutal.

The point is, it is already tough to get started here.

If we want to continue playing these games, we should be helping people out, not driving them away. It is in our own self interest. Personally, I love this genre and want to see it continue and grow, but it will only happen if the people in it take a more enlightened view. There are plenty of examples of hobbies that have grown over time because a few enthusiastic people have taken the time to nurture others.

That means:

1. Nitwits that like to pretend they are newbies and ask stupid questions over and over again, should find a life. You ain't helpin!
2. When someone new comes in and sincerely asks a question and you have the time, try and help them. What matters the most is that they know someone wants them to be successful.

That's all it takes folks and you can insure a lifetime of fun and great community. To me it seems to be a no brainer, but I'm absolutely sure that someone can and will argue the opposite point. Viva la difference!  

very well said.
typically..I go out of my way to show appreciation and support for noobs.
(squeakers).....sure..I may giggle at an errant burst...or remind them that it's a military channel and please stop talking about your dream car...every now and again..but I agree...they are the future of this game.

[Cheese]

Rapier

Great post and right on the mark.

I can say that most ex-FA'ers are headed this way over to Aces High for the very reasons you have stated.  They think this MMO has the chance to be around longer than others, and they don't want to get burned again.  There are a few startup sims out there worth keeping an eye on, but for now AH has the crowd and it looks like it will be around for a little longer, anyway.

FA did have a big push for new subs about a year ago, and we DID get a bunch...I don't know the exact numbers, but I don't think many of them stayed.  If I had to guess I would say less than 5%..certainly less than 10%.  You can't fly around for a few weeks and get 'Wicked Sick' or 'Godlike' skills in this genre...it takes months and years..just like the real pilots!

I can also say that my transition over here to AH has gone well.  I have yet to meet a 'nitwit' or 'dweeb' or a 'hoser'...I mean 'hazer'...(I've met a few 'hosers'..LOL).  I have gotten good help whenever I have asked, and folks have been more than helpful.  There are always good peeps in the training arena to help as well.

[ImADot]

When someone new comes in and sincerely asks a question and you have the time, try and help them. What matters the most is that they know someone wants them to be successful.

This is the important part of your well thought out post. 

I spent about an hour with a new guy once, just to get his vox working.  I've also spent time pinging noobs with my .303's and actually letting them fly for 15 minutes in combat just so they can see what it's like to not die after a 1 second burst from some score-tard's cannons.  Not sure if they're still here or not, but they were eager to keep upping, ask intelligent questions and learn things.

[Reaper90]

So it's not OK to say "Alt+F4 for help screen?" 

[VonMessa]

Yawn..............

Part of the appeal of this game is getting your bellybutton handed to you for a few months.

Once new guys (I was guilty myself, at one time) start actually TAKING the advice that more experienced players have to offer, the new guys will actually get better.

It takes time to learn, period.  Spoon feeding each and every 2-week squeeker that just saw a commercial while watching dogfights is not going to make them learn any faster.

If it is help they seek, the help is in the training area.  The first time I requested time with a trainer, the response was almost immediate and the trainer was more than helpful and patient with me.

The best way to learn how to not get shot down is to get shot down a few thousand times.

Practice, practice, practice

Muscle memory

Learning a sight picture

Some BCM and ACM.

Ball-busting is a ritual and integral part of joining just about 99% of Fraternal organizations on the planet (yes, this community could be considered a fraternal organization).  It weeds out the non-hackers and toughens the skin.  It makes you learn to cope or leave.

If I wanted easy mode, Combat FS would be the way to go.  

[TheRapier]

VonMessa, your reply was exactly what I was expecting.

Thanks for not surprising me

You made a couple of comments that I think lack support:

Part of the appeal of this game is getting your bellybutton handed to you for a few months.
Ball-busting is a ritual and integral part of joining just about 99% of Fraternal organizations on the planet (yes, this community could be considered a fraternal organization).  It weeds out the non-hackers and toughens the skin.  It makes you learn to cope or leave.

It is NOT appealing to be crushed over and over again. There are very, very few people that will continue with something that they seem to suck at, no matter how much they may love the idea of the game itself. It flies in the face of human nature to posit that.

People will naturally be drawn to something that they feel they can be successful at. It's been proven a kajillion times and saying otherwise suggests a willful ignorance.

A fraternal organization could be considered a community but not all communities are fraternal organizations. Fraternal means exclusively male. Communities have women and children and teens as part of them. Your ball-busting will drive off all but the masochistic, chest thumping, males.

If these games appealed to women and other members of a real community, we'd have more guys drawn to it which would draw more females and the whole genre could be as successful as WoW. It doesn't because a few misogynists are bent on perpetuating their own, very limited, and ultimately very small world. Given the options between coping and leaving, the vast majority of the human race will leave. They have lives, and in those lives they have better things to do than deal with someone's misplaced hostility.

The game itself will provide sufficient challenges, it doesn't require additional malevolence as appeal.

[Ghosth]

Dang Rapier, you bucking for my job or what?

Reading your posts almost reminds me of reading my own!

Anyway, to the point, couldn't agree more.
You nailed it right on the head. 


Dunno who you are or where you came from but man I love hearing what your preaching!

[Wiley]

A couple of comments on these two parts of your post:

It is NOT appealing to be crushed over and over again. There are very, very few people that will continue with something that they seem to suck at, no matter how much they may love the idea of the game itself. It flies in the face of human nature to posit that.

The game itself will provide sufficient challenges, it doesn't require additional malevolence as appeal.

The comment 'go to the training arena' is often the best answer, and at the very least, sound advice.  Trainers are much, much better equipped to get a newbie up to speed than the average pile-it in here.  I guess what I'm trying to say is, not everybody is a good teacher.

I am a half-assed not-complete-idiot ingame.  I can try to explain stuff to a newbie, but if they're operating on the 'point pipper at enemy plane' level of ACM, it's tough to know where to start.  I'm not saying people shouldn't try to help, but saying 'I was able to get around on you because I used the vertical to high-yo and get around to where you were going to be with a lead turn.'  Might well be about as intelligible to the guy as speaking in early, formal Latin to him.  If someone hasn't got the frame of reference and the terminology down, it's pretty much gibberish.

Unsolicited advice is also going to quite often be taken in the wrong light, that too is human nature.  You've just waxed a guy, and now you're telling him where he screwed up in a competitive game?  That's going to bring hostility far more often than not.  Wait to be asked, then pontificate on how you outmaneuvered him.

I do agree that additional malevolence doesn't do anything but tick people off.

However, being in the multiplayer arena here, people are playing to win, either for score, taking bases to win teh warz, to get some kills for fun, or whatever.  The point is, when you're in the Main, people are generally throwing their best stuff at you.  If you're new, you're going to get crushed on a regular basis.  It's just the nature of the game.  I'm not quite sure how to deal with that on a game design or community level.  It just seems to me it's something that happens until the player learns how to avoid it.  It's not a game on the level of console games, or mmorpgs, or other game types where things are to some degree balanced to be 'fair' and nothing bad ever happens to you.  Upping under 30 enemy planes on a de-acked base is going to result in quick, immutable death, regardless of how many times you try it.  There is such a thing as an unwinnable scenario in this game.  It's part of what makes it fun, IMO.

Wiley.

[TheRapier]

Thanks Ghost! That's quite a compliment coming from you. Much appreciated!

It's not my first rodeo I've been around gaming from the developer/publisher side for about 12 years but this is the stuff I love. It pains me to see air combat sims (and sims other than racing sims and shooters) being one of the few segments that keeps shrinking year by year when the rest of the game world is expanding like crazy.

The parts that ARE expanding are attracting more people by being more inclusive and tolerant of the new player. Yes, in many segments there are the trash talking chest thumpers (name which console shooter that is populated by 13 y/o trashtalkers? No fair if you have to guess more than 3 times ) but these are self limiting.

There is no reason that this genre can't appeal to more people but we have to do our part. Think of it! For those folks that remember AW and the influx of "baby seals" that came in during the AOL hey days, this would make that look like a ghost town (no pun intended ) but WE, meaning us, have to do it. This isn't something that HT or anyone can make happen, its a broad based decision that involves each player.

In answer to Wiley, yes, the best place to send them IS training. I'd humbly offer that if it were done in a friendly way, it increases the likelihood that the person would actually go there and get the help they need. I've witnessed a lot of brusque interactions that say basically,"I can't be bothered with noobs, please go away." Well guess what? They do.

[Sonicblu]

VonMessa, your reply was exactly what I was expecting.

Thanks for not surprising me

You made a couple of comments that I think lack support:
It is NOT appealing to be crushed over and over again. There are very, very few people that will continue with something that they seem to suck at, no matter how much they may love the idea of the game itself. It flies in the face of human nature to posit that.

People will naturally be drawn to something that they feel they can be successful at. It's been proven a kajillion times and saying otherwise suggests a willful ignorance.

A fraternal organization could be considered a community but not all communities are fraternal organizations. Fraternal means exclusively male. Communities have women and children and teens as part of them. Your ball-busting will drive off all but the masochistic, chest thumping, males.

If these games appealed to women and other members of a real community, we'd have more guys drawn to it which would draw more females and the whole genre could be as successful as WoW. It doesn't because a few misogynists are bent on perpetuating their own, very limited, and ultimately very small world. Given the options between coping and leaving, the vast majority of the human race will leave. They have lives, and in those lives they have better things to do than deal with someone's misplaced hostility.

The game itself will provide sufficient challenges, it doesn't require additional malevolence as appeal.

Im with VonMessa on this is part of overall experience.

Are they drawn to someone in a p51 picking and vulching them all night becasue they dont know any better. So after you picked the noob do you pm him and offer to help him not get picked in a fight or vulched. Or do you land your kills and think oh he will learn and if he doesnt then he deserves it.
As a noob if I got to choose again I would take all the bs on range and 200 and opt for not being vulched on a capped base 10 times in a row before my wheels are up. OR as im learning to fight get picked over and over again.

Even as a 5 year AHer is NOT appealing to get picked over and over and over by the same guy as you are fighting another con. Just so he can see his name in lights.

So my question is you say you dont type on range and crush someones spirit over and over again. DO YOU FLY the SAME WAY.

[TheRapier]

Sonic, I'm more talking about what is the response when someone is asking for help.

I'm not advocating checking every kill's score to see if they are new or not. I don't know that and I don't check that. I don't assume they need help, even when they fly poorly.

On the other hand, when someone asks, its pretty clear they are making a request for help. That's where the interaction can be helpful.