Author Topic: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ  (Read 1778 times)

Offline wgmount

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 280
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2010, 11:33:23 PM »
I like the hog. Been flying a variant of it since day 1. Started with the -1 died a lot from stalls when I got slow. It has good firepower BnZ and turn fights well and is fast enough to leave the great turning a/c behind. Everyone should learn to fight in the Hog
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."- H.L. Mencken

Offline Dawger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 925
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 03:50:40 PM »
My regular students all know the mantra......

Out fly the other guy and then use the guns to let him know he lost the fight.



Offline Dawger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 925
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2010, 03:53:35 PM »
When you pull the trigger because you are bored or feel sorry for the guy trapped in your 12 o'clock you may be ready for the next lesson.

Offline humble

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6434
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2010, 04:12:24 PM »
When you pull the trigger because you are bored or feel sorry for the guy trapped in your 12 o'clock you may be ready for the next lesson.

Putz

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline wgmount

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 280
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2010, 05:30:34 PM »
i did something like this to become a better shot, i shot all the .303s in my mossie and waited until i only had 100 cannon left, my goal was to get 5 kills with that 100 rounds. I finally did after a couple weeks, and my hit percentage went up dramatically

Now empty all your cannons and get 5 kills with the 303's. will be a bit tougher
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."- H.L. Mencken

Offline hlbly

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1013
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2010, 06:18:39 AM »
Nrshida told me about this . We call it the crucible . DA during peak times is great place for it .

Offline Big Rat

  • AH Training Corps
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1605
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2010, 06:21:46 PM »
Oh the fun times of chasing things around with no ammo.  Gets really interesting once they figure it out.  I think I chased a 190 A5 for 5 minutes after he figured out I was of ammo in my A20.  I didn't dare try to escape or go anywhere except on his 6, or I was dead.  Eventually a friendly came down and killed him but it was a lot of fun.  Then there was the FSO where I chased around an Ki84 with my LA-5 with no ammo to save a squaddie's B25's, till I finally got a clean escape, and he gave up just before I ran out of gas.  Agreed that this will force you to get some good ACM time in but, it's probably easier to spend time with a trainer for a bit :aok

 :salute
BigRat
When you think the fight might be going bad, it already has.
Becoming one with the Hog, is to become one with Greatness, VF-17 XO & training officer BigRat

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10435
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2010, 11:43:14 PM »
 Yes BR,I remember flying the B25 when you chased that 84 and you had no ammo!! :rofl :rofl


   :salute

Offline Dawger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 925
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2010, 07:02:47 AM »
Oh the fun times of chasing things around with no ammo.  Gets really interesting once they figure it out.  I think I chased a 190 A5 for 5 minutes after he figured out I was of ammo in my A20.  I didn't dare try to escape or go anywhere except on his 6, or I was dead.  Eventually a friendly came down and killed him but it was a lot of fun.  Then there was the FSO where I chased around an Ki84 with my LA-5 with no ammo to save a squaddie's B25's, till I finally got a clean escape, and he gave up just before I ran out of gas.  Agreed that this will force you to get some good ACM time in but, it's probably easier to spend time with a trainer for a bit :aok

 :salute
BigRat
**********DISCLAIMER: I am not an AH Trainer.**************

I will always say spending time with a trainer is a better option.

But I've had several students that absorbed all the avoiding and taking advantage of the HO lessons and flew tremendous in a training setting but couldn't apply it in the arena.

It is an attitude issue. In the training setting the ego component disappears after a while. The student stops worrying about everything except the lesson. Once those very same students got back into a "live" arena they quickly fell back into the old habit of what I call "Kodak Instamatic" flying. They had an ad campaign a long time ago encouraging the buyer to "just point and shoot".

That is the style of flying that most players use. They are flying the guns. The end result is a lot of jousting and a lot of folks flying around in weird airplanes simply for the gun package and the ability to point it.

When you see guys regularly flying around dog fighting in Stukas, Il2, A20, B25 and even the Hurri II, 110 or mossie it isn't from some desire to seek the ultimate challenge. It is because those airplanes offer the opportunity for one shot kills if they can get the victim to pass in front of the guns. I'm not saying every pilot that flies one of these types is doing that but there are always a few guys in games of this type that gravitate to the big guns on slow airplanes because it is easier to sucker a few unsuspecting players into dying in front of the gun package.

If you find yourself pressing for a gun solution at the expense of aircraft performance you are falling victim to this trap of flying the guns. I do it myself more often than I like. It is an issue that requires discipline. It is difficult to restrain oneself from shooting.

How do you know when to shoot and when not to?

If you are involved in a true angles fight that is basically neutral or maybe even you have gained a slight angles advantage taking a front quarter shot is usually a mistake to take the shot.

Here is why. In order to take a shot you have to aim. Aiming means relaxing the pull even for a split second. If you are max performing the airplane in this fight this split second relaxation of max performance is going to give your opponent angles because he will still be max performing his aircraft.

This is how two perfectly matched aircraft with two pilots matched in skill can appear to be a tremendously different skill levels. It is in the attitude. If you stay disciplined in a maximum performance fight and stay out of the bandit cone of fire while constantly working to gain angles you will always win over the guy always pulling for the shot or even over the guy who occasionally tries a shot in the multiple front quarter pass fight. Learning the discipline to do that in an arena is a difficult thing to do and requires some effort.

So if you find yourself flying disciplined with your trainer but reverting to "Kodak Instamatic " mode in the arena, empty those guns or fly something that requires a long burst on target to kill with.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 07:32:01 AM by Dawger »

Offline MoJoRiZn

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 50
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2010, 07:07:56 AM »
My regular students all know the mantra......




cool Dawger, did not know you had become an AH trainer. what times do you train in the Training Arena?
"Well, I woke up this morning, and got myself a beer
the future's uncertain, and the end is always near     Let it roll"

Offline Dawger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 925
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2010, 07:30:17 AM »
cool Dawger, did not know you had become an AH trainer. what times do you train in the Training Arena?

Sorry. I should be more clear. I am not an AH trainer. I was a trainer in another game for many years and continue to train with members of my squad or others that request it.

I apologize for the error in communication.

Offline Ghosth

  • AH Training Corps (retired)
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8497
      • http://332nd.org
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2010, 08:55:30 AM »
Dawger mostly I agree with you, all too often people just want a fast plane with good guns rather than actually learn to fly.

However in the choice of planes that you used to illustrate your point was not in my opinion the common variety used by those who's primary goal is to get guns on in any way possible.

" Stukas, Il2, A20, B25 and even the Hurri II, 110 or mossie"

My list would read more like N1k2, Hurri II, 190, followed by the 110 and the mossie.

Stukas, iL2, A20, B25 for the most part do not have the speed to deal with the rest of the late war crowd.
Granted there are some who dogfight in the A20, but I would say they have plenty of ACM on the ball.

I would never put them in the same category of those who just look for a shot.

As for the iL2 and the B25h, while they do have very good guns, they are also easy meat for anyone who can fly.
I see them most used for ground attack, and given the choice between dieing, and getting a nose around for a shot, well, I for one don't blame them for trying for the shot. Indeed would do so myself in that situation.




Offline Dawger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 925
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2010, 09:06:43 AM »
I agree with you, Ghost but no one is fooled by a Nik or 190 into thinking "EZ target".

There are a few players that use the almost automatic assumption that the Stuka/Il2/A20/B25 is an EZ target to lull the opponent into complacency just long enough to get guns on target. They exist in AH as well as in the other games I've been involved with.

The true fighters with massive guns don't promote that same sense of complacency in my opinion. In fact, I would argue much the opposite. I know my first thought when facing a 190 is never get anywhere near the front quarter. There are plenty of guys in game that can execute incredible snapshots in the 190.

Discipline in avoiding giving the other guy a gun solution has a lot to do with perception of the threat. That is why I use the list I use but, of course, one must assume any heavy gunned aircraft is being flown by someone willing to bet the bank on the "point and shoot".

Maybe the best policy is to treat every opponent like he is flying around with  one shot one kill magic weapon and act accordingly.


Offline Ghosth

  • AH Training Corps (retired)
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8497
      • http://332nd.org
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2010, 01:42:44 PM »
Last  line is the best.

Assume if they can they will and set them up accordingly.

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8059
Re: Avoid the HO or How to fly like a champ
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2010, 03:27:04 PM »
Agreed also with the last line.  I've known guys who will set up for 'letting the other guy get a poor snapshot on them' so they can set up for a full burst to get the kill.  Quite often when the opponent is using 303s or 50s, rarely against cannon-equipped aircraft.  I just can't fathom letting the enemy shoot you enroute to setting them up.  IMO you should never voluntarily put yourself in a position where the enemy has a gun solution on you.  Far too easy to lose a critical part.

Sometimes it's unavoidable, but in my opinion it shouldn't be part of the plan unless something has gone quite wrong.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11