US intel leak arrested in Kuwait

[USRanger]

lol i leave for 11B training next month!

Muuuaaahhh!!!!


 

[VonMessa]

Unquestionably... That's why I said "share in the suffering of our troops as best we can". Not all of us can join the fight, but we can at least watch what is going on and see what out soldiers are experiencing... Even if it is only on Youtube. The alternative is that we have a civilian population that is completely clueless with regard to our soldiers' suffering and the realities of this conflict... Is there then any wonder our veterans are treated badly by people who have no clue?

Watching a battle on youtube will ONLY allow folks to see it. That is is the extent of "as best we can"

It's TV

Voyeurism

Entertainment, if you will.  The American public, at large, will mindlessly change the channel the moment they get bored.

Watching the most detailed HD footage will NEVER convey what it is really like.

It can't let you experience...............

What 115 degree heat feels like on the soles of your feet through a pair of combat boots.

The feeling of sand in every tender part of your body and how raw it makes those parts.

The realization that sand actually has a "taste" and that different sand from different regions has it's own distinct flavor,

The involuntary tensing of muscles every time one hears the thump of a mortar round coming out of a tube and the silent prayer that every GI says, after hearing that same sound hoping that when that round finally lands, it's not the one that sends you home in a box.

What it is like to go on a treasure hunt for the body parts of someone you have spent 6+ months living, eating, sleeping, playing cards, and swapping fishing/hunting/girl chasing lies with, after his vehicle ran over an IED, or what it's like to hear him ask you to not let him die in some God-forsaken hell-hole, far away from the ones he loves while his life's blood ebbs out into the sand.

How gloriously relieving it is to mark another X on one's short-timer's calendar, and how WRONG it is to mark that X before the sun has set that day.

The exquisite and precious smell of a 3' x 3' plot of grass when one kneels down and buries one's face in it, while surrounded by a landscape that is as alien to most people as the surface of the moon, planted by a GI whose wife sent him the seeds from home.

Watching war through a camera lens will never allow one to to experience any of that.  Not "as best as they can".  Not at all.

Thinking that it could even remotely help one relate to the gamut of emotions that a GI experiences during a firefight is utterly ludicrous and downright insulting.  

Most GI's could care less if the folks at home are "tuning in to the war channel"

Most would prefer that their OpSec, location, troop movements and/or tactics not be broadcasted to the world at-large so that their safety and security is not compromised, thank-you-very-much.

Most just want to make it back home so that they can resume their normal lives and see their family.

Most would be totally honored by a firm handshake, a slap on the back and a warm, heart-felt "Thank You", not "Hey, I saw the footage of your last battle and I know what you are going through".  That is as silly as a man telling his wife that he knows what she went through during childbirth.




"For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

Carry on.

 

 

[hlbly]

lol i leave for 11B training next month!

Enjoy the Sand Hilton , and the Malone ranges bro .

[Die Hard]

Thinking that it could even remotely help one relate to the gamut of emotions that a GI experiences during a firefight is utterly ludicrous and downright insulting.

I'm sorry if I've insulted you, but I... and I can only speak of my own experience... I really do share in the suffering when I see other people suffer. Even if it is on TV and especially if it is someone I know. While we certainly cannot "relate to the gamut of emotions that a GI experiences during a firefight", we can at least see some of what's going on and what our troops are experiencing. Is watching someone getting killed the same as experiencing death?... No, that would be preposterous. However, at least we see someone get killed and can imagine the horror of it, and gain a new kind of respect and sympathy for the people who experience such situations. Does that sense to you?

[ElGuapo1]

VonMessa...US RANGER....I Respect you......Nuf said....

[hlbly]

I'm sorry if I've insulted you, but I... and I can only speak of my own experience... I really do share in the suffering when I see other people suffer. Even if it is on TV and especially if it is someone I know. While we certainly cannot "relate to the gamut of emotions that a GI experiences during a firefight", we can at least see some of what's going on and what our troops are experiencing. Is watching someone getting killed the same as experiencing death?... No, that would be preposterous. However, at least we see someone get killed and can imagine the horror of it, and gain a new kind of respect and sympathy for the people who experience such situations. Does that sense to you?

Problem is the balance of reporting . What will you see ? Even handed info . Where you see everything good and bad ? What the people who run todays media think will shift your opinion to what they want you to believe ? Case in point The first gulf war no one disputes the video of the tons and tons of chemical munitions stock piled . How ever when we had to go and look for weapons of mass destruction , when we could not find them . It was all a lie . Yet those munitions went somewhere . You can't dispose of them and not leave signs of it we can't find . If he did manage this miracle why not honor the agreement he signed and allow inspection and have full disclosure .If for no other reason then to eliminate economic sanctions ? The delayed fear , extreme relief , and subtle guilt . That soldier feels you will not be able to relate to . I doubt you could fully  tell me why they feel guilt . You want to do something to experience what a soldier feels . Think about the most lonely time in your life cube that and there is a fraction of what they feel . If you want to help buy some phone cards , send a unit a care package , better yet become a pen pal and write often .

[VonMessa]

Problem is the balance of reporting . What will you see ? Even handed info . Where you see everything good and bad ? What the people who run todays media think will shift your opinion to what they want you to believe ? Case in point The first gulf war no one disputes the video of the tons and tons of chemical munitions stock piled . How ever when we had to go and look for weapons of mass destruction , when we could not find them . It was all a lie . Yet those munitions went somewhere . You can't dispose of them and not leave signs of it we can't find . If he did manage this miracle why not honor the agreement he signed and allow inspection and have full disclosure .If for no other reason then to eliminate economic sanctions ? The delayed fear , extreme relief , and subtle guilt . That soldier feels you will not be able to relate to . I doubt you could fully  tell me why they feel guilt . You want to do something to experience what a soldier feels . Think about the most lonely time in your life cube that and there is a fraction of what they feel . If you want to help buy some phone cards , send a unit a care package , better yet become a pen pal and write often .

Letters in the field, regardless of who they are from, are a commodity  that you can't put a price tag on.

What this individual did was foolish, despicable and plain dangerous.

An E-4 (Specialist), no less?

That is a rank one can obtain even before finishing basic training with enough education upon enlistment.  Basically, this means that this guy could have been a still-wet-behind-the-ears college grad.  I completely agree with USRanger on this one.  Treason/Espionage sounds about right, and this individual is a good candidate  for the hangman's noose.

In this modern age of technology, there is nothing stopping an unscrupulous programming editor from changing footage to spin the story any way they want to (such as: highlighting portions of the video, adding arrows and tags to objects and/or persons to focus the viewers attention to what they want you to pay attention to, etc)

There is nothing altruistic about what this individual did.

He leaked what his superiors considered sensitive intel to a foreign media.  He willfully and knowingly disobeyed orders.  He made a command decision that he had no right to make.  These are the kinds of actions that get soldiers killed.  It begs the question of what else has he leaked, or what else would he have leaked if he wasn't caught?  He potentially put his brothers in arms lives' in danger and I'll say it again.....

He committed treason.

There is a special place in hell reserved for folks that do what he did.

[Yenny]

There are a lot of lil things that one thinks it's harmless, but if it gets in the wrong hand it could change the entire operation. I've seen it a lot in Iraq, where we came out with something. A few months later it would get counter. These lil "harmless" informations that soldiers accidentally spiel, could and did help the enemy adapt their tactics to counter our devices. A lot of lil pieces of the puzzle will paint a picture. Sadly, a lot of soldiers pay with their life for it.

[bj229r]

There is a guy I work with. He was in the Navy Seals during the Vietnam War, and his duty was to provide recon in northern Vietnam. He told me a story that him and his squad of 9 soldiers were passing through a small village in the forest. Right as they were about to leave, a little girl around 7 years old swung a machette and the blade hit between his shoulder blades. He wasted no time and pulled out his handgun and shot her point blank in the head. In front of everyone in the village. Gunfire erupted everywhere in the village and him and his squad left the premises as swiftly as they could.

In war, there is only life and death. There is no compromise. Live or die.

There was one MAJOR difference in Blackhawk Down between the book and the movie (I'm thankful they didn't include this, and thankfully, there was no video for this little bastard to post on the intardnet) After untold hours of fighting, the Somalis started approaching the Ranger's defensive position with women and children as human shields. They finally had to start shooting THEM, too. The armchair quarterbacks in the media would have crucified them

[RTHolmes]

and thankfully, there was no video for this little bastard to post on the intardnet

why thankfully? surely if women and children were killed (or any other incidents in an ethical grey area) its better that people can see the context and understand that it was unavoidable? or not, as the case may be?


edit: isnt there a scene in BHD which touches on this issue where a gunman is killed, drops his weapon and its picked up by a woman/child (cant remember which.) the guy looking through the sights is saying "dont pick it up ... dont pick it up ..." the publics understanding of that single incident is much clearer because the context is shown, rather than just a statistic of 1 dead non-adult male.

[bj229r]

Yah, the public understands...that's why Nam vets were spit on and considered baby killers for a decade after it was over

[VonMessa]

why thankfully? surely if women and children were killed (or any other incidents in an ethical grey area) its better that people can see the context and understand that it was unavoidable? or not, as the case may be?


edit: isnt there a scene in BHD which touches on this issue where a gunman is killed, drops his weapon and its picked up by a woman/child (cant remember which.) the guy looking through the sights is saying "dont pick it up ... dont pick it up ..." the publics understanding of that single incident is much clearer because the context is shown, rather than just a statistic of 1 dead non-adult male.

This notion is all well and good.

I do not, in the least bit, have an issue with a government being held accountable for it's actions.

This issue here is that this particular individual acted beyond the scope and boundaries of his authority.


US Army General orders

1. I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved.

2. I will obey my special orders and perform all of my duties in a military manner.

3. I will report violations of my special orders, emergencies, and anything not covered in my instructions to the commander of the relief.


The Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces Article 1 really says it all. The Code of Conduct is the same for the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard.

  Code of Conduct for the United States Military

1. I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life.   I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

2. I will never surrender of my own free will.   If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

3. If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available.   I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape.   I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

4. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith in my fellow prisoners.   I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades.   If I am senior, I will take command.   If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and back them up in every way.

5. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth.   I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability.   I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

6. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free.   I will trust in my God and the United States of America.


The Code of Conduct was established by Executive Order 10631 on January 1st. 1955

[RTHolmes]

This issue here is that this particular individual acted beyond the scope and boundaries of his authority.

that is true of all whistleblowers.

[Delirium]

that is true of all whistleblowers.

No, this wasn't just whistle-blowing, it was revenge.

From the chat logs provided by Lamo, and examined by Wired.com, it appears Manning sensed a kindred spirit in the ex-hacker. He discussed personal issues that got him into trouble with his superiors and left him socially isolated, and said he had been demoted and was headed for an early discharge from the Army.

He wasn't giving information about the US Army using detainees to test chemical weapons. He was inflating friendly fire and civilian deaths within a combat zone.

[Delirium]

forums are running slow today- double post