Author Topic: Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS  (Read 2834 times)

Offline rust

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
      • http://www.rocketace.net
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2000, 09:09:00 PM »
Aces High doesn't support Force Feedback.  My Microsoft FF was so great for Warbirds.  You could feel a stall coming on and feel how fast you were going by the stiffness of the stick.  Unfortunately, there are no such effects yet in Aces High.  They plan to support it but it isn't high on the list they say.
I have no problem using the twisting rudder but I've read all over this board that it's no comparison to rudder pedals.  
Microsoft FF does not work with any pedals on the market except one, Hoffman (I think that's the name).  These pedals are brand new and cost $100 and I've read good things about them.
I'm actually considering changing to a HOTAS system since AH doesn't support FF.  I also really want to try rudder pedals out.

Hope this helps.

------------------
RUST
 


[This message has been edited by rust (edited 09-05-2000).]

Offline Suave1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2000, 11:43:00 PM »
I have a usb ms stick and gameport pedals . No you can't use pedals with ms stick on the same port . But in aces high you don't have to, that's just one of the things that makes AH such a bithcin game .

Offline Hristo

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1150
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2000, 12:08:00 AM »
Wow, thanks for som many replies, guys...

Saitek, you say ? You know, I could go with any equipment now, but TM made me so sceptical about anything that has pots. If I would have to chose between stable stick or more buttons, I know I would choose a reliable stick.


Also, I remember Pirado saying that FF would give you a feedback on how close you were to stall etc. A nice feature IMO, replacing the stall horn. I have also found about Hofman Simped rudder pedals working with MS stick. So, no twisty stick  .

Anyway, I will take more time with this and choose carefully.

And Yeager, I agree. If something has pots it will either suck at first or soon. At least my expensive TM gear acted this way.

Expect more quastions about different gear in the future...

thanks

Offline Hristo

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1150
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2000, 01:36:00 AM »
Kirin, you made me thinking now  . Few questions please...

Do you have USB or gameport version of X36 ?

I remember seeing Funked's reply somewhere where he stated that USB doesn't have the electrical noise of gameport equpiment. Even though, I am done with TM.


How long have you been using the X36 ?

Did you ever see any spiking ? Even the smallest ones ?

Is the AH cailbration curve perfectly smooth when you deflect the stick ?

Is it possible to use gameport rudders with USB gear ?


Offline Suave1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2000, 08:14:00 AM »
I use gameport TM Elite rudder pedals with a usb ms precision pro stick . I also have a gameport throttle plugged into the rudders .

Renfield

  • Guest
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2000, 08:45:00 AM »
Hey guys,

I use the MS Sidewinder FF Pro and really like the feel. I've also never had a single spike or had to recalibrate. The thing is dead-nuts on with calibration and limits. It is rock solid.

The twisty stick for the rudder isn't too bad in my opinion. Once you get used to it, it is really OK. I think I would like pedals but I've yet to see a set that looks like they are built worth a damn - so if no suitable pedals are available, twisty stick wins for me.

Yup - no FF support in AH - but the FF centering has a nice feel to it. And yep - there is the tiniest bit of slop at the center. But you get used to it. Consider it as loose mountings in yer airplane.  

The only drawback I see to the FF and it is easily fixed with a piece of tape is that it has a sensor to tell when a hand is holding it. The FF is disabled whenever nobody holds the stick so it doesn't go banging around. So take your hand off the stick to go grab a beer and you may come back to a spiraled-in plane if the stick flops over to the side. Also, if you are pulling hard and unblock the sensor, the stick will quit resisting and you can lose your line, etc.

But after using the FF Pro, whenever I've used other sticks they just don't feel right. I hate to say it but the FF Pro just has a real nice feel that is a pretty good approximation of regular stick forces in an airplane.

I've gone the pot route with cleaning and replacement before the Sidewinder opticals and have never ever looked back.

The only reason I can think of that others haven't mimicked the optical input is because of patent limitations. I'd bet that Microsoft locked up as many variations on the optical input as they possibly could. They use a quadrant system and ratio the light levels to determine stick position but there are other ways - crossed polarizers, linear arrays, area arrays - but they could be fiddly and/or more expensive.

But it would definitely be in other manufacturer's interest to go optical. You just can't beat ZERO wear. There are high-priced pots out there with wear measured in the millions of cycles but they cost a lot more than the cheap pots the other guys are using now. The other manufacturers need to realize they have to bite the bullet and either go optical or with better pots.

Actually there are other techniques that could be used that may not be covered by patent - just a little more exotic and take more than a high-school electronics class to be able to design in. Magnetic, inductive, and capacitive sensors could also easily be used - none would have rubbing or wear and would be maintenance free.

Offline Suave1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2000, 12:35:00 PM »
Since we're on the subject . Has anybody got the microsoft strategic comander yet ? It looks like it might make a kickbutt throttle .

Offline Camel

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 95
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2000, 01:11:00 PM »
Good reading Renfield, your probably right about the patent! It seems to me there is a huge hole in the market for a complete quality setup. Why the hell doesnt MS make pedals? Doesnt make sense.

Btw, The Interceptor is magnetic.

Offline Exile

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
      • http://www.simladder.com/
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2000, 11:31:00 PM »
I've been trying to remember where I heard about another set of pedals that got alot of attention in the recent past and came up with this ... http://www.combatsim.com/htm/dec98/pedal-hoff.htm

Now these look to be the real deal. They got a great review as well. The main thing I like right off the bat is the distance between the pedals themselves. This is the one thing I could never get used to with CH pedals, they were just too close together and using them felt very awkward. Now these Simped Pedals look perfect.

And they appear to be compatible with most sticks as well.

Offline StSanta

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2496
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2000, 12:23:00 AM »
I'd go for US made gear like CH Products   .
For rudders; Hoffman Electronic Simpeds. Best there is.


------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 09-07-2000).]

Offline Hristo

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1150
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2000, 12:28:00 AM »
Bah, so sad there isn't a superior HOTAS out there. What we have now is Thrustmaster with bad pots and no FF, MS with good hardware but not true flight sim stick, Logitech somewhere near MS, Saitek with pots.

Why doesn't someone make it right :

USB gear
full HOTAS, like Thrustmaster
optical sensors, like Microsoft
Force feedback, like Microsoft

Well, I guess I'd have to wait some more with this.

aircat

  • Guest
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2000, 01:54:00 AM »
 Amazing I havent heard someone pop up with the Suncom route.... last person I knew that had one flew for hours on end (like myself) and never once had a prob with their design... personaly I like my MS SW Pre Pro only 3 downsides. the rudder seems to have a drift in it that gets anoying and its not as accurate for some slight manuvering. and the throttle always has me reaching for the right side of the keyboard with my left hand... one other MINOR annoyance is going from the MS SW PRO to the PRE PRO was the hat seemed small and a bit higher but over all more comfort in design.

 Im currently looking into getting the Suncom dual throttle and Simped Vario pedels... any one out there with this set up?

does the simped vario recenter without pressure being applied?

Tailslide

  • Guest
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2000, 03:27:00 AM »

 Also a TM user gone sidewinder.  My PFCS lasted me about five years and was great for WW2 sims.. even the pots worked great only had to replace one once. Eventually wound up wearing out the buttons on the stick (I fly a LOT).  

 I tried some newer TM sticks but although they were sturdy the pots would wear out in no time. I used the CH pedals a lot but they are so close together they damaged my knee (yeah I know stop flying so much hehe).

 Eventually went MS USB pre pro and what a difference.. refuelling in F4 was a breeze going from my TM stick.  I've had it a year and a half .. most sticks I wear out in weeks.

 Even the twist rudder is not too bad after you get used to it.  Only thing I'd like is a seperate (pot-less) throttle and a more PFCS style grip/resistance.

   TS


Offline Suave1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2000, 07:01:00 AM »
Aircat, I had a Suncom stick, with the dual throttle . Although the stick was heavy and had a very good feel to it, it only had a 4 way hat . It spiked and drifted pretty bad, and just got worse . Alot of the hotas switches on the throttle wore out and stopped working after about a year .
They're both in my joystick graveyard now; they had a short life. Too bad Suncom doesn't make a digital .

aircat

  • Guest
Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2000, 07:44:00 AM »
 as a stick I'll most likely stay with my pre pro... antone else know of a good split style throttle that isnt like CH where its to blocky?