Tired of Thrustmaster, switching to MS

[Hristo]

Well, here's the story...

I bought TM F22Pro, F16 TQS and Elite rudder pedals for few hundred dollars some 2 years ago.

Worked great, felt great, as the most expensive flight sim gear should.

Then, after some 6 months uf use the potentiometer problems started. I already heard about it from others. Pot cleaning, stick software from Bob Church etc etc. It all helped a little, but after some times things got worse.

At the end I had to order new pots. Sure, you could order them from TM, but they didn't ship parts to Europe. After searching the net I found about replacement pots. Ordered them, worked on them a little and finally they worked.

My TM stuff worked again like when I bought it. But not for long. Few months later it was similar as before : spikes, erratic movement of plane etc etc. Damn, how much E I lost just because of damn pots.

Then Bob Church's digital upgrade came out. Of course, I ordered it. It improved many things, and among most important, it improved the potentiometer behavior. The stick now spikes from time to time, but not as bad as before.

Still, it is my impression that for the amount of money one pays for TM stuff he gets poor quality in form of bad pots. They simply ruin the game experience. I can live with many cables near my feet. I can live with worn and lose stick. I can ,live with the noise it sometime makes. But bad pots - no way ! I had enough !!!

Right now my TM setup is worn, some buttons somwetimes fail, stick is somewhat lose etc.

About time to buy new stuff. And what do I hear ? TM will launch new HOTAS 2000 in next 6 moths or so.

Great news, although I was sceptical. The first thing I went looking for was will it have potentiometers. NO, it said at first. It will have same devices as MS Sidewinder FF has - a kind of optical device, very reliable. WOW ! Great !!! (I even started to save the money).

Then I visit the TM site again and what do I see ???! New HOTAS 2000 will have potentiometers, high quality, digital processor, USB, blah blah blah. Sorry, gentlemen at TM/Guillemot. Pots in new HOTAS 2000 and Hristo goes to Microsoft. And I even get FF for two times less money.


Yes, you read right. I will give away all the HOTAS benefits for a stick that will not fly the plane on its own. Plus the FF. For twice less the money.

Now, some questions for MS users at last.

Who of you people uses it ?

Any spikes ?

Recommendations ?

How's that twisty stick for rudder control ?

Would you rather have rudder ?

The throttle ?

Would you rather have HOTAS ?

Force feedback ?

Can you actually feel plane stalling by FF ?


Any alternatives I should go looking for maybe ?


thanks

[danish]

Have been a loyal Sidewinder user for a numbert of years.Great stick with only 2 shortcommings IMO:
1) *just* too few buttons for AH (but enough for WB) - that is only a matter of taste though.Total 16 AFAIR + 8 view hat.
2) Wristrudder works all right - but you will find that certain maneuvers involving akward rudder input + ditto stick action is hard to do right.

I have tried to solve that problem via Saitek X36 USB (has a finger activated rudder on throttle)and having a hard time getting used to that, allthough its getting better heh.

As you are used to pedals an option could be the USB Sidewinder stick (as I said *great* stick) + USB pedals.

Havnt got any idea about FF, dont like it, dont use it.

danish

[1776]

Have moved on from MS to SaitekX36 and also have the PCDash.  MS is ok but for $30 less I have stick and throttle with X36 hotass!!
BTW only get the X36 USB.  It is an outstanding stick and is only $99.00 in US. www.saitek.com

[straffo]

Go X36... I've changed my 'trusty' Sidewinder for this and : WOW !IT ROCKS !!

One of the drawback of the sidewinder is the twisting rudder : when I push the stick du to biological limitations (the MS designer is coming from Roswell to my mind   )
I cannot avoid to add an 'parasite' yaw (rudder) input  
To correct it I must have an awful deadzone   weird !
and for the last after 3 years my sidewider was drifting to the left    120% left 80 right ...

Now you can chose a MS Stick but fly with the Knight or the rook you'll be a perfect target  

[Suave1]

I use MS stick with TM pedals, and saitek throttle . The MS stick simply never spikes, and is very precise . The TM pedals have served me well going on 3 years now, maybe I'm lucky there. The saitek throttle blows, as I can never get any of the hotas switches to work longer than 20 minutes. They say the usb version is better though . If your TM pedals are still usable I suggest you use them for rudder controll instead of the stick twisting .

[SOB]

Hristo,

That sucks...Thrusty should have fixed that pot problem, but they didn't and alienated a lot of customers for Guillemot, who purchased them.  If you really like the HOTAS 2000, then get them...the digital conversion of the analog potentiometer signal will assure that you don't see any spiking or adverse effects, and the pots are rated for a long enough life that you probably won't ever see yourself replacing them.  The technology does work, and the stick can be rock solid.  I know...I've got an F22 that has the same technology in it currently and it's worked beautifully - unfortunately I had to give it up for Bob's upgrade, but after careful installation of good pots, I see no spiking in my new stick.

All that being said, Guillemot has their head in their prettythang for this one.  No one wants pots, regardless of whether they'll work or not, people are just fed up with them.  They should have used some form of digital sensors and incorporated it into the price of the sticks if they had to.


SOB
 

[Yeager]

Bottom line here...if it has mechanical pots it will either 1) Suck now or 2) suck soon.

Why in hell is MS the only device using digital optics?

If MS would make a throttle and rudders to go with a PrecPro type stick they would rule!

Yeager

[Ripsnort]

I found the digital to be alittle touchy, but I've used mechanical pots for so long, I suppose its just a matter of dampening, etc.

I always have  back-up pots for my CH gear, and a simple email will get you new pots at your doorstep within a week.  I spray them with WD-40 and actually got 8 months out of my last pair of pots...usually the X axis goes bad first, so, I would say that I go thru maybe 3 pots a year...?  Takes about 1 min to change them.

Used to be a Thrusty beta tester early 90's, good stuff but I found CH products to be easier to change pots, and no GOD-D$@&M broken spring problems that I ALWAYS had on every make and model of TM gear, including their peddles.

CH Products now, and happy.

[airspro]

For the money , USB PrePro is a better stick than the FFeedBack one . I have had both . You are going to miss the Hands on Throttle the most I think . I use a CH Pro with my Microsoft stick right now , most games let u either have multi controlers or use the key pad to run the throttle .

Never knew what a spike was till I bought a CH product , hehe . Love my throttle though . Buttons buttons , lol .

Twist stick ? Yep some moves are a pain in the wrist , but you will most likly be one hell of a snap shot in no time at all   .

It either MS stick has a nice 8 way hat too , fits me like a glove  

cheers spro

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by airspro:

Never knew what a spike was till I bought a CH product , hehe .  

I actually had a CH product delivered new with a bad pot!  Alot of stick spiking problems can be solved with a good joystick utility program as well.

I've tried the following:
MS Sidewinder
TM
CH Products

Still with CH Products but I am in no way committed to them, hope to try others JS out during the con to see what I like.

[Nath-BDP]

Saitek Cyborg3D #1

[Kirin]

Hristo,

I went the other way round...  

The last few years of my sim career I was flying with the SW FF Pro and loved it! The stick force can be adjusted just to your needs and it's very smooth and excact. No spikes at all. Twisty rudder is quite easy to learn and makes gunnery a lot easier. Now that was before AH...

AH made the SW practically unusable due to anti-stick-stirring-code. Ok the problem was solved but other arrised. As mentioned you just haven't got enough buttons. Though I had no problem using keyboard for most of the flight functions the SW came to its limit with trim. The main reason I switched to the SaitekX36 HOTAS was that I needed a second coolie on the stick for trimming! Perhaps CT will negate this advantage but until now it's a must (for me). Although I am still learning rudder pedals (rusty old CH Pro I found in the basement...   ) I must say that it excels the twisty thing in many aspects. Obviously it's more realistic, gunnery maybe more intuitive but for manouvers that include rudder input pedals are mandatory - it's a pain flying the ball with the twisty thing...

All in all I am very very satisfied with my X36 combo - it has potentiometers though and I don't know what it will look like in a few months but I think the enchanced control and realism is worth the effort. The SW FF is a great allround stick at a good price which you can use for FS decently but not a replacement for a real HOTAS. For a pilot of your quality I don't see any alternative...  


Kirin

[Suave1]

Just because you use an ms stick doesn't mean you can't use a seperate throttle and rudder pedals .

[Kirin]

oh I forgot something - although FF is a nice feature when supported it can be a real problem:

Since the stick force is controled by the motors and not a spring or something you get a nasty dead zone around the center position. Centered there is no force at all, move the stick some degree and suddenly full force is applied (even if tuned down to minmum) - this can be bad when you need to adjust your stick very slightly... Fighter Squadron is almost unplayable for this reason. (yah ok they have serious problems with the SW FF - soooooo sensitive...   ) but this might be worth considering...

If I was to buy a SW I would choose the plain Sidewinder Precision Pro... no FF but same stick quality at a very good price...

Kirin out again...

[Camel]

I went from a SW 3D pro (which I had for 3 years, and loved it) to Wingman Interceptor, and CH pro pedals.

I dont think I could go back to twisty sticks. Haveing had the rock solid prefomance of the MS, I couldnt buy a stick with POTS. After reading up on lots of sticks, I choose this Logitech. No POTS (magnetic like the Simped Vario pedals) 3-8 way hats and well placed buttons, good software. I would suggest looking into it for 58 dollars US.

Great Stick!