Cap'n'boot - refined version

[Lusche]

The Premise

I Arena caps are necessary, because too many players in a single arena create all kind of problems for AH & HTC

II Current method is to let caps kick in at noon, because the login numbers are growing fastest at that point but

III There is an extended period (up to two hours) of very low numbers in the second arena, while many players in the bigger one are just logged in to secure their spot.

IV Even when both arenas have reached about the same level, numbers are still quite low in each, often being a limiting factor in gameplay experience for players in non-US timezones. Paradox - there are enough players online for a single healthy arena. But they are spilt, so that "unhealthy" numbers at a alter time are prevented

V Simply moving up the minimum cap number, or letting the cap kick in at a later point doesn't work, leading just to bigger disparity and more unfairness to an even greater number of players


The Solution: Kick'n'Boot

Goal:
- Having a more playable minimum number of players on the LW arenas
- being fair for most players
- limiting the transition time from hours to maybe 30 minutes.

The implementation:
- Splitting latewar arenas into one daytime and two nightime arenas. Both names have noting to do with time inside of the arenas, they are just for external reference.
- Setting a specific time by HTC when the transition between daytime & nightime arenas will commence. This is based on average player numbers, my proposed threshold would be an average population of ~300 players.
- this time is made non on the boards, per arena message, and will stay the same every day

every day the following things will happen automatically:
- arena wide text warnings 30, 15, 10, 5, 3, 2, 1 minutes before shutdown
- arena will get shut down, all settings are saved: control of bases, position of CVs and so on.
- player will get booted the same way like on war resets: No loss of score or perk points
- 2 "nighttime" arenas will appear (carrying over settings from the night before) with 200 cap that will be dynamic from then on
- sometime in the morning, the same goes other way round, nighttime arenas will get shut down and daytime arena will appear and load it's last "saved game"


This way, we keep the transition time to a minimum, and we are still able to win the war. People will get used to a scheduled shut down if it's really automatic & scheduled at the same time each day, and not working by SkuzzyTime

[phatzo]

the only problem I see is when you change from two arenas to one, what setting do you use? From which arena?

[RufusLeaking]

the only problem I see is when you change from two arenas to one, what setting do you use? From which arena?

You beat me to the question.

How about keeping the second arena's setting for when it comes back in the next cycle?  One arena's setting would go 24 hours with the twice a day flushing of deadwood, and the second arena would be active during prime time.  I assume Lusche is talking in North American time.

As an alternate, why not just flush guys who sit inactive in an arena after a period of time?

[AWwrgwy]

Interesting proposal.  I like it.

However,  , I think the wish for an average population of 300, even in one arena, is a pipe dream any time other than weekends or U.S. Prime Time.

For instance, 16:20 Aces High Local Time, there are not a total of 300 people populating both LW arenas.  145/200-107/250.  A nice, even split.

Lusche Local Prime Time would probably have, with your proposal, a single arena with 100-150 people.  I see no problem with that.

I just keep seeing the number 300 brought up.  Seems we want 300 in an arena 24 hours a day and that has nothing to do with caps or any other currently "limiting" factors.

Otherwise, I like the one arena in non-prime time idea as much as the 24 hour-a-day cap idea as they would both serve the same ends.


wrongway

[Lusche]

the only problem I see is when you change from two arenas to one, what setting do you use? From which arena?

The "daytime" single arena uses the same settings it had, when it was shut down 12 hours before. For example, if rooks have 20 bases, bish 12 and knights 8 when arena shuts down, it will restart exactly at that point when it gets back online.
Same goes for the two "nighttime" arenas.

It's just like traditional savegames

[Lusche]

For instance, 16:20 Aces High Local Time, there are not a total of 300 people populating both LW arenas.  145/200-107/250.  A nice, even split.

this is not the way things really are in ah. The numbers are actually quite different.


 

Seems we want 300 in an arena 24 hours a day and that has nothing to do with caps or any other currently "limiting" factors.

Oh yes it. has.
I was able to play with 250-300 at my prime time. Now I'm not anymore, just because of the caps. We still have 250 players online, but they are forced into two arenas of ~120 each. And this is exactly what sucks. US player can still play at those numbers. We European guys can't, only because of caps. We have to play at 60-150, so that at prime time there are two 300 player arenas instead of one 600 player arena. WE are paying the price.

as the 24 hour-a-day cap idea as they would both serve the same ends.

And what should that cap be at? 100? We have about 110-140 players for ours... does that mean we have one "full" arena than all the time and the  rest of us is allowed to have fun with 10-40 only?

[AWwrgwy]

this is not the way things really are in ah. The numbers are actually quite different.

Really?  I didn't "make up" my 16:20 numbers.

There is still not 300 people in both LW arenas right now.

16:50 Image Capture:

Oh yes it. has.
I was able to play with 250-300 at my prime time. Now I'm not anymore, just because of the caps. We still have 250 players online, but they are forced into two arenas of ~120 each. And this is exactly what sucks. US player can still play at those numbers. We European guys can't, only because of caps. We have to play at 60-150, so that at prime time there are two 300 player arenas instead of one 600 player arena. WE are paying the price.

And what should that cap be at? 100? We have about 110-140 players for ours... does that mean we have one "full" arena than all the time and the  rest of us is allowed to have fun with 10-40 only?

I am assuming Lusche Prime Time is right after the caps kick in.  Noon-1400 AH Local.

I say, yes, minimum caps at 100.  There is barely more than 150-200 in both LW arenas in the morning AH Local.  Even with a minimum cap of 100, with sufficient players on, your number of 200 or 300 per arena would be possible.

Again, the minimum cap is not the point.

With your proposal, you would still have one arena with 100 to barely 200 people in it before it reset.  Even after the reset, you would have two arenas with , what you term, an "unhealthy" 100 to 150 people.

I just think that 300 is unobtainable at the times you want, even without caps.

In a roundabout way what you are really asking for is to raise the minimum cap to 200 which, as has been stated many times in the past, would take the two arenas longer to equalize.


wrongway

[Lusche]

In a roundabout way what you are really asking for is to raise the minimum cap to 200 which, as has been stated many times in the past, would take the two arenas longer to equalize.

No I'm not, and the last sentence shows that you simply haven't understood my proposal at all. It wouldn't work anything like this.

[AWwrgwy]

No I'm not, and the last sentence shows that you simply haven't understood my proposal at all. It wouldn't work anything like this.

I see "minimum of 200"

- 2 "nighttime" arenas will appear (carrying over settings from the night before) with 200 cap that will be dynamic from then on

That would give you two arenas after the split.  One with 200 and one with whatever was left over.  Anywhere from zero to infinity, but more than  likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 50.

So now we have 200/200-50/250.  What has changed?  And, it will take longer for the 50 to rise to where anyone can get into the capped arena.

Minimums are a moot point.  With caps at 100 and 292 people on in the LW you would still have 188/100-104/150.  Caps at 200 you would have 200/200-92/250.

Everyone is hung up on the minimums.  They don't matter.

Put 400 people on with minimums of 100.  You would have 250/250-150/300 and everyone would still want to be in the 250 arena because 150 isn't enough people to find a decent fight unless the numbers are 150/100-104/150.


wrongway

[RTHolmes]

dynamic caps remain during primetime plus you get booted twice a day. I see that it solves one problem of ridiculous caps during off peak but overall a thumbsdown from me.

[Lusche]

I see "minimum of 200"

That would give you two arenas after the split.  One with 200 and one with whatever was left over.  Anywhere from zero to infinity, but more than  likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 50.

You are wrong wrong wrong, Wwrgwy 
You should look at intention and mechanism. MY intention, not what you are trying to read into it.
The numbers are just rough guides. Lets say arenas will split at ~300 into two arenas with 150. cap at this point.
Is that clearer?

[Lusche]

dynamic caps remain during primetime plus you get booted twice a day. I see that it solves one problem of ridiculous caps during off peak but overall a thumbsdown from me.

Actually, almost no player will get booted twice a day unless you play for 12h+. And with scheduled resets, ample warning and no hurting of score or perks I don't really see a problem. Before the system for winning the war was changed, we had almost daily resets.
Second, I see no way to get totally rid of dynamic caps. This is a way to improve them.
Because you wouldn't have a whole group of players having to face a 60 player arena all the time. So it is mroe fair for more people.

[Bruv119]

I would like to hear from Skuzzy whether it is possible to "save" the map positions.

Everytime it gets reset the map is always  default positions.  I doubt it is possible  

[Lusche]

I would like to hear from Skuzzy whether it is possible to "save" the map positions.

Everytime it gets reset the map is always  default positions.  I doubt it is possible  

So do I. What I propose could surely not implemented right now.

[AWwrgwy]

Because you wouldn't have a whole group of players having to face a 60 player arena all the time. So it is more fair for more people.

OK.  I've been hit by the clue rake.  The above statement actually clears thing s up for me. 

I was going to argue that there would still be no difference between your proposal and 24 hour-a-day caps until I read this.

 

I'm sure no one will mind having to relog in the middle of a good fight.  I know I wouldn't but, then again, the caps as they are now don't particularly bother me either.

wrongway