After Action Critique Wanted III

[Muzzy]

So I'm trying to switch from low-alt turn and burn fighting to slashing attacks with high-speed aircraft.  I'm flying around in a P-51D  at about 14k with fellow Bish Doolittle when we encounter a 109 K4.  At the start of the fight the K4 has about a 2k alt advantage on us. The K4 turns in and starts making runs on either myself or Doolittle, which we are easily able to avoid. Recalling some advice from "After Action Critique II", I try to stay high, not executing any high-g turns if I don't have to, straightening and leveling out after each pass to keep my speed up.  The K4 is quickly losing his alt advantage, but his speed is still pretty good.  After one pass at Doolittle, he starts to climb out right in front of me.  He looks like he's losing speed now.

"Why'd he do that?" - Doolittle

I decide to pick up speed and close with him, but he manages to flip over and the next thing I know, he Ho's me. 

Did I pick the wrong moment to make my move?  I think he was less than 2K from me when he started to climb so I thought I could get to him before he managed to recover. 

Comments always invited.

-Muzzy

[Dawger]

My only comment is..............

Where is the film?

The film viewer is the best training tool available.

[SPKmes]

Sounds like a classic K4 rope to me....the K4 can keep going up long after many other planes...38's do the same thing...they will just offer themselves to you...or so it seems...the only advice I can offer on this is watch your speed when in this situation unless you have a superior speed advantage you will get caught out...and pull away before you get too slow and before they rudder over...it is not a Ho in the sense that it is thrown around here....question...Were nearing verticle? Were you still in control of your plane when they came over the top?

[Muzzy]

Yeah, I recall I was zooming up towards him at the time.  Had good speed but my turning ability was eroding.

Here's the film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i7G4pojdUM

[SPKmes]

Yeah, I recall I was zooming up towards him at the time.  Had good speed but my turning ability was eroding.

Here's the film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i7G4pojdUM

  I see the problem now...you were show boating and took your eye off the prize...

If you weren't joking...wrong film

[Muzzy]

Well I did tweak it in MoviePro just a bit.  Thought it would be a bit more entertaining and, you know, symbolic. 

[The Fugitive]

Film is the only way your going to learn this stuff. It also makes it much easier for people to spot were you went wrong and give you tips on how to correct it. With out film your getting basic and general answers and you'll make the same mistakes over and over again.

Upload your films to http://myfreefilehosting.com/ It's free and painless   

[papjohns]

Film your sorties; while your youtube thing is semi-funny I can't stress enough how much I learned from my mistakes by reviewing my films.

[Muzzy]

I do film most of them, just didn't get this one.

[Soulyss]

I do film most of them, just didn't get this one.

If you haven't already you can pull up the clipboard and click on Options --> Preferences --> Flight and check the box next to "Auto Film Sorties" this will start to roll film as soon as you hit the runway and will give you a pop up box when the sortie ends asking to save or cancel the file (alternatively you can stop/save anytime during the sortie by hitting ALT+R).

Posting a film is the best way to get an answer to a "What happened" or "how did..." question. 

[BaldEagl]

You've got to be careful against the high torque planes (K-4, Typh, Temp).  With rudder they can rotate on a dime at low speed in the direction of torque.  Sounds like that's what happened to you.  2K isn't safely close enough.

BTW, the K4 out-climbs, out-turns and is faster than the P-51D at most alts.  If you're not working closely in tandem with your wingman your meat on the table for a good K-4 pilot.  I fly the K-4 quite a bit and when I do P-51's are my favorite tasty treat.

[Muzzy]

Well just so you guys know I'm paying attention...further P-51D adventures that I rolled film on today:

1. Flying through the furball, a zeke got on my six and shot me down.  Film review showed that I was climbing at the time.  Apparently zeroes can catch a pony during climbout.  Lesson: zoom out of the pile flat, increase alt when your six is clear.

2. Caught a Hog pulling up in front of me and dropped him.  Then there was a sudden ping and my wing fell off.  No cons behind me. WTF?  Film review showed I got hit by puffy ack from nearby CV. Lesson: SA doesn't end with air cons.  Know where all threats are: land, sea and air.

-Muzzy

[321BAR]

Well just so you guys know I'm paying attention...further P-51D adventures that I rolled film on today:

1. Flying through the furball, a zeke got on my six and shot me down.  Film review showed that I was climbing at the time.  Apparently zeroes can catch a pony during climbout.  Lesson: zoom out of the pile flat, increase alt when your six is clear.

2. Caught a Hog pulling up in front of me and dropped him.  Then there was a sudden ping and my wing fell off.  No cons behind me. WTF?  Film review showed I got hit by puffy ack from nearby CV. Lesson: SA doesn't end with air cons.  Know where all threats are: land, sea and air.

-Muzzy

zeros can easily catch an enemy plane that is extending if done correctly, especially if something like a P51 doesnt pick the speed up lvl before going to a climb.


and one quick note, if you see something that loves the rope, plan your attack before following up or youll lose the E battle and have the roper on your six quick. ive been able to kill P38s and 109s that try for the rope just by waiting a split second more and going up when hes at the pinnacle.