Radar + Strategy

[Lusche]

none of that would've happened with the old radar, as no one would've spent the time looking for a bomber that they couldn't see. since i was almost constantly on the enemy's radar, i got a little bit of fighting. even if he'd have shot down all of my bombers, that would've been fine, because at least i got a fight.

Wrong. There are plenty of guys loving to hunt bombers "they can't see". I  have killed hundreds of buffs that I was hunting outside dar circles, and I was shot down countless times being outside dar circles in buffs myself. It's a hunt, and hunting is fun.
And if you are really looking to get as much fight as possible in your bomber, you can still just fly into enemy dar to provoke reactions.

[thndregg]

In the past, and even now, when you Rooks & Knits in LW see a rather ominous-looking darbar grow deep in our Bishland, our mission has seen scouts filter our way to FIND (i.e. HUNT) for us. And the course of the fight grows from there. You "bad guys" prove you don't have to have the all knowing-all seeing radar dots of Bish B17's to know what's coming. And, damn right.. it's fun as hell.

[Shuffler]

If all capturing was stopped this would still be a great game. Some of the best fights are when a CV is approaching a base. Both sides have equal ability to return if shot down. Most stay low and fight.

I only need one base to up from.

[RTHolmes]

Granted, I don't get a lot of time to fly but when I have, I haven't really seen strategy - what I've seen almost every time I sign in is a mammoth slug-fest at one field pair with each side working to bludgeon the other into submission by sheer weight of numbers and sheer "luck of the timing".

thats what I'm seeing

There are plenty of guys loving to hunt bombers "they can't see". I  have killed hundreds of buffs that I was hunting outside dar circles, and I was shot down countless times being outside dar circles in buffs myself. It's a hunt, and hunting is fun.

I used to do this alot, always struck me as a very historical mission profile for fighters - patrolling areas where you think theres a good probability of a bomber raid. I get to do it alot less these days, not really sure if its because the bigger radar discourages the enemy buff drivers, or encourages more friendly buff hunters

We used to start smaller fights away from the furballing hordes alot which doesnt seem to work as well these days either. not sure why but dropping a few bombs on a town used to get a decent response and doesnt as much now. maybe because the defenders know that a take is less likely by 4 or 5 guys now with the town changes so dont bother upping to defend?

[grizz441]

Nbody disagrees with me?  Figured i'd hook at least one person into a debate with that post!

[Bear76]

Altitude is the same, 65ft.

Bish are rolling NOE after NOE, smashing & grabbing Knight field after field. Right now it seems Rooks are following that lead.
Hitech is in the arena for hours now, probably watching it.I expect the worst...

No, he was in the tower cheating at poker again. Probably subsidizing his income due to the so called mass exodus of players  

[kvuo75]

thats what I'm seeing


I used to do this alot, always struck me as a very historical mission profile for fighters - patrolling areas where you think theres a good probability of a bomber raid. I get to do it alot less these days, not really sure if its because the bigger radar discourages the enemy buff drivers, or encourages more friendly buff hunters

We used to start smaller fights away from the furballing hordes alot which doesnt seem to work as well these days either. not sure why but dropping a few bombs on a town used to get a decent response and doesnt as much now. maybe because the defenders know that a take is less likely by 4 or 5 guys now with the town changes so dont bother upping to defend?

you do realize the radar is back to "normal" (~12 mile radius) in the LW arenas right?

as of several days ago, in fact.

[Baumer]

Nbody disagrees with me?  Figured i'd hook at least one person into a debate with that post!

LOL Sorry Grizz I was going to respond but it's been a crazy hectic day. However, it seems the point is moot (is he still around) since the dar was changed back yesterday (was that temporary?). Personally I don't care one way or the other, I am able to find fights (or at least people to kill me) regardless of the settings. Also I appreciate Snailman's position about "the hunt" as a valuable part of game play.

I agree with your point that a prepared defense that's in place, and roughly equal to the attacking force, will 99% of the time stop and attack cold. Also as the quality of the pilots on defense goes up the number required for defense can drop significantly.

However, I believe that the original position that Hitech posted is still valid. With the radar range at 12 miles this doesn't provide enough warning for a country to properly defend it's bases. If you think about it mathematically, there is only a small % of players at any given time, that are in the tower and ready to fly defense. Given the speeds of most LW planes you are talking about that small percentage of players in the tower, responding within 3-5 minute window, to get to the flashing field, select a plane, and take-off, to get some alt, before the NOE attack arrives. And I don't think it's appropriate to expect players to augger/ditch/bail an existing flight to run to defend a field far away from where they are.

With that being said, I think the new airfield town (and v base) arrangement has slowed down the base capture rate (this will increase as more players become familiar with them), which then gives the defenders more time to respond.

And one final thought, looking at the player population as a whole (yes this is a generalization I know it doesn't apply to all), it seems that the natural progression is to start on the attack/offensive side of the game, but once (or if) the individual player learns more skills (ACM, gunnery, etc) he is more likely to start flying more in defense. 

[CAP1]

LOL Sorry Grizz I was going to respond but it's been a crazy hectic day. However, it seems the point is moot (is he still around) since the dar was changed back yesterday (was that temporary?). Personally I don't care one way or the other, I am able to find fights (or at least people to kill me) regardless of the settings. Also I appreciate Snailman's position about "the hunt" as a valuable part of game play.

I agree with your point that a prepared defense that's in place, and roughly equal to the attacking force, will 99% of the time stop and attack cold. Also as the quality of the pilots on defense goes up the number required for defense can drop significantly.

However, I believe that the original position that Hitech posted is still valid. With the radar range at 12 miles this doesn't provide enough warning for a country to properly defend it's bases. If you think about it mathematically, there is only a small % of players at any given time, that are in the tower and ready to fly defense. Given the speeds of most LW planes you are talking about that small percentage of players in the tower, responding within 3-5 minute window, to get to the flashing field, select a plane, and take-off, to get some alt, before the NOE attack arrives. And I don't think it's appropriate to expect players to augger/ditch/bail an existing flight to run to defend a field far away from where they are.

With that being said, I think the new airfield town (and v base) arrangement has slowed down the base capture rate (this will increase as more players become familiar with them), which then gives the defenders more time to respond.

And one final thought, looking at the player population as a whole (yes this is a generalization I know it doesn't apply to all), it seems that the natural progression is to start on the attack/offensive side of the game, but once (or if) the individual player learns more skills (ACM, gunnery, etc) he is more likely to start flying more in defense.  

you sure it was changed back? i was up in mw last night, and it was still expanded. like i had mentioned previously though, i didn't start flashing a base till i hit the point where the old dar rings used to be.

as for the ability to defend.......i generally fly lancs when i bomb stuff. my average drop speed is around 278mph. at this speed, that 12 miles disappears in 2.59 minutes.
 at 325mph, it's covered in 2.2 minutes.

 pretty hard, as you mentioned....to mount a good defense in that time frame.

[falcon23]

Falcon,
I am going to try to be as direct and non demeaning as I can with my statement as I possibly can here to be as constructive as I can.

You certainly can not be ignorant to the fact that one big reason that we have the new dar changes was because things were getting way out of hand with the NOE, smash/grab tactic. There comes a point where things start taking over the game, people refuse to log in or just log off after just being sick of it. I can pretty much assume why you wouldn't log into say LWorange if bish were getting ganged and had just a few bases left. You like using strategy, winning the war etc... Its fine and your choice of how to play, but realize the way YOU want to play ( I stress YOU because you are usually the culprit that leads those missions) does in fact affect others and how they play.
You focus on one thing and one thing only, winning the war and resetting the map. At what cost?..you spike ENY because of the fact that a country just doesn't like to be ganged so most of the lone players that like to fight on most balanced terms cant do so now because lets say your taking on average 20 guys( this is mild #s if you logged in last sunday) out of 100 of bish that are logged in and trolling them around the map trying to fly undetected avoiding contact at all cost Meanwhile you smash base X, if it worked or not you move on to another target taking 20-30% of resources with you and leaving 5 or 6 guys behind to deal with the angry mob as a result of your action. PS. Does all this ring a bell from the first squad you ever been in?

Complaints are not just from your local nit or rook bad guys. Aside from your group of guys that like winning the war, There are alot of bish that hate these tactics, even if its the guys in green doing it. Same as Rook or Knights guys.  YES you do affect gameplay and NO its not at a positive cost to a good percentage of players. I really hope you can look at this objectively and reach your own conclusions.
 

 If you really think I am the main culprit in these missions you are mistaken...

 There have been many times when I have gone into an arena and seen BISH against the wall,sometimes I stay in the arena and times I log into the other arena..I am sure others do this as well..

 ENY gets moved for all sides at one time or another,and all sides get ganged..moot point.

  The first squad I was in basically no longer exists..moot point..

 Well,I am not seeing complaints from bish when we take bases..and I assure you,that on your side,you dont have people upset about bases being taken either.no matter how it is done.

 But you still didnt answer my original question..YOu always say that if a mission doesnt take a base they move somewhere else quickly..Define quickly..I already stated that 45min. to 1.5 hours or so is long enough for me to be trying to take a base,by then town is off sync in being destroyed and popping..


 I just love the way you are saying it is I who is the cause of so much of this problem..try again,because I am not.

 Ran a mission into a nit base just last night at ALT #119..just me and squad of about 6...took down vh,called some friendlys over to roll gv's,and air ,and then set up a mission off a cv which was north of the base..got about 8 people in that..rolled the mission,by then,we were getting the vulch on,and taking down town..Lusche was there..he knows it wasnt an NOE,paccer was there,he knows it wasnt an NOE..it was just some guys getting a base take started,and it grew and it worked...so your statement that i run NOE constantly is plain wrong..I use them,and while I favor them,I find that mixing it up is even better..

[Lusche]

you sure it was changed back?

In LW, it has changed back when TT arena was opened up.

[CAP1]

In LW, it has changed back when TT arena was opened up.

aahh...rgr that. did they keep it to the old settings, or only for titanic tuesday?

[Lusche]

With the radar range at 12 miles this doesn't provide enough warning for a country to properly defend it's bases.

With 12miles dar range a high alt raid, you still had the big darbar that said "INCOMING", no big difference. Same warning time.

With with a noe raid and new, extended radar range, all the horde had to do is to pork dar 15 mins before the main raid, as base warning range and darbar altitude had been the same. So the extended dar range didn't hurt a side with numbers much. After a few weeks confusion they figured that out, and you hat the same NOE crowd rolling bases as with the old radar settings. Only that they sometimes even had the comfort of having own dar coverage down to 65ft over the enemy base they were about to swarm, which sometimes really could hurt the few defenders. No more goon hunting on the deck.


Maybe one solution would be to extend the base warning range to 20 miles and lowering sector darbar altitude... that could really give the defending side some more time to scramble.

[Lusche]

aahh...rgr that. did they keep it to the old settings, or only for titanic tuesday?

It's still 12.5 miles range, 65ft altitiude dot dar, 500ft altitude darbar.

[SPKmes]

Straight off the change back to the 12.5 range has made a difference to the times I fly....back to what it was. There are fights to be had...and now with the added thought and work to taking a town it has in my opinion allowed the defenders a good chance to save the base which in turn causes a good fight to happen..base takers and furballers alike...You could probably still roll a field I'm sure, but it certainly isn't the same as the box town system we had and now reverting back to not having the added advantage of knowing where attackers and/or defenders are at from take off means, although not a lot more, the need to think and predict routes adds to the play..

And on the hunting side of things...I used to find the thrill of the bardar hunt an effective change from the norm.....knowing they are headed to a certain point but not knowing the exact where about in a sector