UFO's real?

[bozon]

The odds of life only ever happening on 1 planet in over 13 billion years, across billions of galaxies, which each have billions of stars would just be unbelievable, I mean really think about those numbers, thats a lot of space and material for life to happen in quite often, even if you only got life in 1 spot in each galaxy that would still be billions of places life happened, think about how big the Milky Way is, and where just an average size galaxy, and there are billions of other galaxies out there, like I said in a previous post, there are more stars in the Universe then grains of sand on the beaches of Earth. 

That it a good argument for the existence of other life, but at the same time it is an argument of how hard it will be to find each other.

[warhed]

The odds of life only ever happening on 1 planet in over 13 billion years, across billions of galaxies, which each have billions of stars would just be unbelievable, I mean really think about those numbers, thats a lot of space and material for life to happen in quite often, even if you only got life in 1 spot in each galaxy that would still be billions of places life happened, think about how big the Milky Way is, and where just an average size galaxy, and there are billions of other galaxies out there, like I said in a previous post, there are more stars in the Universe then grains of sand on the beaches of Earth. 

You are assuming life is easily created (which it may be).  What if life is incredibly complex and requires a large multitude of variables to start?

For a rough idea of my point, let's say creation of life on a planet requires 10 variables aligned to spark life, we'll assume the spark ignites and grows (hm).  We'll also assume life doesn't get wiped out by an act of god (astroids, gamma rays, etc.)
Even with those odds, I would agree, life probably wouldn't be so rare.

Now increase the variables, move it up to 1000 properly aligned variables.  Now start factoring in the universe pilot wounding your young life forms, astroids gamma etc...  

The fact life has existed on Earth for this long to produce intelligent life, could be against incredible odds.
Without knowing the size, age, or even amount of dimensions in our universe, and without knowing if life is rare or not, a large universe does not have to increase odds for other intelligent life forms.

[warhed]

You are assuming life is easily created (which it may be).  What if life is incredibly complex and requires a large multitude of variables to start?

For a rough idea of my point, let's say creation of life on a planet requires 10 variables aligned to spark life, we'll assume the spark ignites and grows (hm).  We'll also assume life doesn't get wiped out by an act of god (astroids, gamma rays, etc.)
Even with those odds, I would agree, life probably wouldn't be so rare.
astero
Now increase the variables, move it up to 1000 properly aligned variables.  Now start factoring in the universe pilot wounding your young life forms, astroids gamma etc...  astero

The fact life has existed on Earth for this long to produce intelligent life, could be against incredible odds.
Without knowing the size, age, or even amount of dimensions in our universe, and without knowing if life is rare or not, a large universe does not have to increase odds for other intelligent life forms.

astEroid   

[warhed]

That it a good argument for the existence of other life, but at the same time it is an argument of how hard it will be to find each other.

Random events segregate non-randomly 

[trax1]

You are assuming life is easily created (which it may be).  What if life is incredibly complex and requires a large multitude of variables to start?

For a rough idea of my point, let's say creation of life on a planet requires 10 variables aligned to spark life, we'll assume the spark ignites and grows (hm).  We'll also assume life doesn't get wiped out by an act of god (astroids, gamma rays, etc.)
Even with those odds, I would agree, life probably wouldn't be so rare.

Now increase the variables, move it up to 1000 properly aligned variables.  Now start factoring in the universe pilot wounding your young life forms, astroids gamma etc... 

The fact life has existed on Earth for this long to produce intelligent life, could be against incredible odds.
Without knowing the size, age, or even amount of dimensions in our universe, and without knowing if life is rare or not, a large universe does not have to increase odds for other intelligent life forms.

Even with ever thing you've factored in there, you could multiply it by 100,000 and life would still be relatively common given just how many stars and planets there are in the Universe, I mean do you really understand the numbers here, each galaxy has on average 200 billion stars, and then you have around 200 billion galaxies, those are some huge numbers there, now I'm not saying intelligent life would be common, but life itself in one form or another would be.  There's an equation that tries to define how many planets in just our galaxy would harbor intelligent life, it's called the Drake equation, you should look into it.

[trax1]

That it a good argument for the existence of other life, but at the same time it is an argument of how hard it will be to find each other.

Oh yeah, I mean unless you had the ability to travel vast distances in a relatively short amount of time it would be almost impossible to find each other, and at the moment you can't travel faster then the speed of light, and the closest star to us is 4 light years away, so just to get to it would take 4 years at that speed, but there are theories about ways around going faster then the speed of light which is around 186,000 miles per sec.

[warhed]

Oh yeah, I mean unless you had the ability to travel vast distances in a relatively short amount of time it would be almost impossible to find each other, and at the moment you can't travel faster then the speed of light, and the closest star to us is 4 light years away, so just to get to it would take 4 years at that speed, but there are theories about ways around going faster then the speed of light which is around 186,000 miles per sec.

Beliefs are one thing, but no one has yet proven how life started up on Earth.  How life begins on lifeless planets is something we don't have facts and figures yet for.  
I respect your opinion.  You're saying the universe is so vast it must repeat.  I don't understand the logic in the repetition.  Why do you think life matters to the universe?  Do you believe lifeforms are a vital piece of the universe as a whole?  
What if our stage of life and evolution is simply a outrageously-long shot-byproduct of amino acids and lightning?

For as many "chances" of our life being repeated because of the VASTNESS of the universe, you can say there is as many "failures" at life because of the vastness.  Which would zero each other out, and make us one of a kind 

We should determine if life came here and flourished because of the lifeform, or because of Earth, before we try assuming anything though.

Certainly it would be easier to find the source of Earth-life, rather than finding it hundreds of lightyears away.  We would then have a rather accurate idea of the chances of similar intelligent beings.

[TnDep]

If your talking about the Phoenix lights incident I saw a thing on a show a couple years ago that explained what it might have been, I thought it was really good evidence of a UFO too until I saw this show, they showed that it was flares dropped by a military aircraft, they took that one famous video of the event and went to the exact spot where it was filmed, then they took video from the same angle but in the daylight, then they transposed the daylight footage with the night footage, and you see that as it looks like each light turns off it's simple the flares falling behind a mountain in the background as they drifted down, and there was a military report of a a/c dropping flares in that area that night.  I know there's also eyewitnesses that say they saw the UFO at dusk as it flew over their houses so I don't know how to explain that, but the video they showed with it transposed with the daylight footage was pretty convincing, now I won't say that it absolutely was flares, but like I said it was fairly convincing.     

that was the cover up story, have you even seen a flare set stationary for hours on end? they go up and come down nothing even close to this but I'm with you I know what your saying I can't believe people actually believe our military stories - I remember the follow up story to that as well back in '97

[warhed]

that was the cover up story, have you even seen a flare set stationary for hours on end? they go up and come down nothing even close to this but I'm with you I know what your saying I can't believe people actually believe our military stories - I remember the follow up story to that as well back in '97

Are you ruling out military craft?  Why must it be alien life?

[saggs]

The Drake equation only covers our own Milky Way galaxy, and there is a lot of argument on the variables even with that.  Then consider that the Milky Way is like a single grain of sand against all the beaches in the world.   We can't even begin to fathom the vastness of the universe. 

I've always like this image from the Hubble telescope.  The Hubble focused on an empty part of the sky as big as a grain of sand held at arms length for a long exposure.  This is what it recorded.



It boggles the mind.

[grizz441]

Beliefs are one thing, but no one has yet proven how life started up on Earth.  How life begins on lifeless planets is something we don't have facts and figures yet for.  
I respect your opinion.  You're saying the universe is so vast it must repeat.  I don't understand the logic in the repetition.  Why do you think life matters to the universe?  Do you believe lifeforms are a vital piece of the universe as a whole?  
What if our stage of life and evolution is simply a outrageously-long shot-byproduct of amino acids and lightning?

For as many "chances" of our life being repeated because of the VASTNESS of the universe, you can say there is as many "failures" at life because of the vastness.  Which would zero each other out, and make us one of a kind 

We should determine if life came here and flourished because of the lifeform, or because of Earth, before we try assuming anything though.

Certainly it would be easier to find the source of Earth-life, rather than finding it hundreds of lightyears away.  We would then have a rather accurate idea of the chances of similar intelligent beings.

Take a simple numeric problem.  Say you set up a program to select a random number between one and a million.  The chances of hitting the number say 15023, is one in a million, but increasing the trials to on the magnitude of trillions of trials you are certainly going to hit that number.  The more you increase the trials, the greater likelihood that the number will repeat.  So certainly the size of the universe plays a roll in the probability that life exists elsewhere.

I know what you are saying also though, that maybe it is so unlikely in the first place that it takes the entire sample set of the universe to create one random variable, earth, to work.  I would say this is highly unlikely since there is already evidence that life may have existed on mars and a moon of Jupiter.

[FLOTSOM]

in small addition to what Grizz has has said is additionally supported by the fact that we only look for what we understand life to be.

we are an oxygen based life form, thus where liquid water exists then there is a great chance for life as we know it to exist. but there are other compositions of elements that given a proper environment may produce life far different than we understand it. carbon is an instance of this.

so the variable used for the potential for life is compounded many many times based on the number of solar systems holding potential planets and then compounded yet again many many many more times for all of the potential base elements which contain the possibility of creating its own variation of life.

so although we believe life to be a rare thing within the cosmos, in actuallity it is far more probable to exist in many places and in many forms than it is believed.

my only reservation in this conversation is not if it can or does exist elsewhere, but the truth and validity of these "sightings". too many people have lied so it is to the point where no one wants to hear more "stories" without absolute physical proof.

[Jayhawk]

Great point that the skeptics seem to skip over.

I'll try again to make this very clear:  One can believe in alien life forms, but not see the evidence that they have visited earth.  The two don't go necessarily go hand in hand.

Secondly: Let's not confuse life with intelligent life.  There could easily be planets even very close to use that have never developed past tiny single celled organisms (or some other structure foreign to us).

EDIT: FLOTSOM makes a good point that parallels my second point.  Our definition of life was made by humans for earth, that definition might have to be altered if we visit another planet.

[trax1]

Beliefs are one thing, but no one has yet proven how life started up on Earth.  How life begins on lifeless planets is something we don't have facts and figures yet for.  
I respect your opinion.  You're saying the universe is so vast it must repeat.  I don't understand the logic in the repetition.  Why do you think life matters to the universe?  Do you believe lifeforms are a vital piece of the universe as a whole?  
What if our stage of life and evolution is simply a outrageously-long shot-byproduct of amino acids and lightning?

For as many "chances" of our life being repeated because of the VASTNESS of the universe, you can say there is as many "failures" at life because of the vastness.  Which would zero each other out, and make us one of a kind 

We should determine if life came here and flourished because of the lifeform, or because of Earth, before we try assuming anything though.

Certainly it would be easier to find the source of Earth-life, rather than finding it hundreds of lightyears away.  We would then have a rather accurate idea of the chances of similar intelligent beings.

I'm sure that non intelligent life is far more common in the Universe then intelligent life is.  I'm sure that Earth life most likely formed the way you just said, lightening with amino-acid's and it got kick started, and if it happened that way then all you really need for life elsewhere is another planet thats Earth like in the habitable zone of it's star that has liquid water on it, in which case life would be common, life is just a cosmic accident, but it's an accident that I'm sure happens often.

Also yes the vastness of space is what makes it damn near a certainty that life is elsewhere in the Universe, it's that vastness that give the cosmos ample room for experimentation.  Like just look at the pic that saggs posted, that was a pic the Hubble took of a region of space that was empty, but just look how many galaxies you can see in it, and thats just an area the size of a pin head held at arms length.   

[TnDep]

The Drake equation only covers our own Milky Way galaxy, and there is a lot of argument on the variables even with that.  Then consider that the Milky Way is like a single grain of sand against all the beaches in the world.   We can't even begin to fathom the vastness of the universe. 

I've always like this image from the Hubble telescope.  The Hubble focused on an empty part of the sky as big as a grain of sand held at arms length for a long exposure.  This is what it recorded.

(Image removed from quote.)

It boggles the mind.

Wow I'm going to have to look the story up on this picture and if I'm seeing correctly each one of them is a different galaxy by the way the swirls stand out.  Of course there are billions of other galaxies but to see this picture is astonding knowing how many stars/planets are in each galaxy.  Amazing picture



Why you guys are on the topic of life on other planets, scientists have given a certain temperture range that must stay between to have intelligant life or just mainly life in general.  They then started looking at other suns in our galaxy to locate other suns such as ours, then strated looking at planets the correct distance away.  I don't have all the research on this but I have studied it to know they have found several planets the correct distance away that may havest life such as our own.  It's estimated 200 to 400 millions Suns in our Galaxy alone all of which hasn't started nuclear fusion but still so you have to multiply another several billion galaxy's to that number to get the total amount of Sun's in the Universe. 

100,000,000,000,000,000 thats a rough estimate that I come up with myself of the amount of Suns that are in the Universe Do you think at least 1 is like our own providing life?  I know I do can't prove it but I believe with all my heart that there is no way it couldn't