Author Topic: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion  (Read 12819 times)

Offline nrshida

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2010, 01:13:41 AM »
Ah I see, thanks for the explanation. I suppose HTC's unofficial policy makes sense. I would probably do the same in their position. I was just curious to see if they could shed any light on the interpretation of the literature.

Clearly given the discrepancy of 297 kg between the unloaded weight in the literature, and the unloaded weight of the Aces High's Ki-61 then HTC has interpretted the unloaded weight as Wmaker has suggested: sans oil, coolant, pilot, hydraulic fluid etc. plus a few more items we couldn't think of to account for the difference.

Can't really make any more progress on that issue then. It was still nice to see several members of the community sharing resources and discussing some interesting aircraft. I've been playing for over a year now but am fairly new to posting on the forums. That is also an intersting learning experience!

My agenda in this thread is really only to suggest that it would be nice to one day have an Aces High Ki-100 and then we could see for ourselves how it handles and performs compared to the Ki-61. I shall leave the passionate and subjective debating over the minutiae of history to others.

Will try to add some more interesting Ki-61 / Ki-100 pictures in the next few days when I have more time.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2010, 07:09:32 PM »
Couple pics:

The only remaining Ki-100 in the world running its engine after the restoration:


So that this wouldn't get too serious... :D


Would be great if one of our Japanese friends could translate this. :D My guess is that it has something to do with the weight of the cooling system compared to the radial engined Ki-100. ...Or it's something about keeping both contents sufficiently cool enables them to work as intended. :rofl
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 07:11:50 PM by Wmaker »
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Offline B4Buster

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2010, 07:28:18 PM »
 :lol nice, wmaker

minus a bit of trolling, this thread was a great read.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2010, 01:35:04 AM »
This aircraft resides currently in the R.A.F. Museum in Hendon, England and is free to visit for anyone that is in the area (along with many other very interesting aircraft). I uploaded some photos of it here:-

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,296722.0.html

Sneak preview:-



Due to an accident in 1945 the propeller is actually from a Ki-46 Dinah and the oil cooler from a Ki-84. The engine was restored to running condition in 1986 by Wing Commander Paul Brindley, who worked on it in his spare time. The engine was ran on approximately 40 occasions. In 1987, the 82-year-old designer, Mr Takeo Doi visited the aircraft. Mr Takeo Doi passed away in 1996.



In 1992 the aircraft was stripped of its paint revealing some original markings and was repainted for the seventh time. In 2016 the aircraft was stolen from the R.A.F. museum by an Aces High player who was last seen flying it away with a smile on his face. Oh no, that's from my agenda of evil plots and schemes, forget that. Wrong forum.

I noticed that the radial installation is extremely neat and compact. The aircraft is actually quite small. About the size of the Bf109 that's parked nearby.


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Offline Boozeman

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2010, 05:26:28 AM »
Reading all this stuff about the Ki-100, I wonder how it would stack up against the Ki-44? By roughly checking the the data, they seem to be pretty close in some aspects, while in others, the Ki-44 seems to beat the Ki-100 easily. Your opinions?

Offline Wmaker

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2010, 12:55:21 PM »
That's such a cool photo with Mr.Doi in it! I assume that's Wg Cdr Brindley shaking hands with Mr. Doi?

Thanks for sharing nrshida!
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Offline perdue3

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2010, 02:42:34 PM »
I love watching Karaya squirm. Knows a little about everything, alot about nothing.


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Offline perdue3

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2010, 07:32:08 PM »
   As possibly the Ki-61's biggest fan in the game,   

Just a side note: Karaya has not got a kill in the Ki 61 (which could very well mean he has not flown it) since May, 2010 in which he got 2 kills the whole tour.

But, he is the game's biggest Ki 61 fan.  :headscratch:



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Offline nrshida

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2010, 01:18:46 AM »
Could we please keep antagonistic comments about players out of this thread please. If you want to have at it over personal grudges then please start another thread. It wouldn't hurt to have a light hearted and interesting discussion about an aircraft for once.

Yes Wmaker I believe it is Wing Commander Paul Brindle. The photo is a scan from a book called 'Famous Airplanes of the World, Number 23, Army Type 5 Fighter' kindly shared by JHerne.  :salute to you sir.

I think it's incredible that Brindle began the restoration in his own time. What a project to undertake. The fuel injection system apparently took a lot of work. I know the engine has now not been run for some time. I wonder if anyone made a movie of it running in 1986. I know a lot of the world's aircraft press were there at the time. Would have been nice to hear it.
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Offline JHerne

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2010, 02:28:25 AM »
I have, in my possession, two sets of Japanese text books outlining the development of Japanese aircraft based on the manufacturer. While I cannot read Kanjii sufficiently well enough to make out details, these books are dated 1956, so are either working from source documents or first-hand knowledge of individuals who were involved in the aircraft.

If someone is willing to translate, I will scan these pages and post them to see if this can shed any additional light on the subject.

Now - without delving into the technical data - let's ask ourselves some soul questions regarding the Ki-100.

If the Ki-100 had similar performance characteristics as the Ki-61, then why would production and development of the aircraft (Ki-100) continue, since there were other aircraft whose performance overall was superior, such as the Ki-84? I find it hard to believe that the Ki-61, which was outclassed by early late-war American fighters, could still be a viable platform? I ask this question arbitrarily, because like so many successful designs, improvements were made to the aircraft to allow them to retain their advantage, or at least keep pace.

So its my belief that the Ki-100 was superior in performance to the final production versions of the Ki-61. I do not see engine reliability as the sole reason the aircraft was kept in production and development. Of course, the bookworms will nay-say this, but until we can lay our hands on some performance data and comparative data against the Ki-61, its all speculation. Sadly, there are so many variables that we've failed to consider - such as the quality of the fuel and oil used, that even comparing apples to apples is subjective without having actual examples (in full combat trim) to compare and contrast.

So, can we at least agree that it would be an interesting addition to AH?  :rock

PS: You're welcome for the photos.

J
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2010, 10:00:34 AM »
Could we please keep antagonistic comments about players out of this thread please. If you want to have at it over personal grudges then please start another thread. It wouldn't hurt to have a light hearted and interesting discussion about an aircraft for once.

It's ok, he's on a very long "Ignore list".    I figured it was nothing dealing with the topic.   It seems perdweeb and sukov have taken it upon themselves to be the "defenders of the BBS", but ostracize themselves while doing it.   It's their choice to act like the 21-23 years olds that they are.   Mind you, I've never said a bad thing about them.   

I have, in my possession, two sets of Japanese text books outlining the development of Japanese aircraft based on the manufacturer. While I cannot read Kanjii sufficiently well enough to make out details, these books are dated 1956, so are either working from source documents or first-hand knowledge of individuals who were involved in the aircraft.

If someone is willing to translate, I will scan these pages and post them to see if this can shed any additional light on the subject.

Now - without delving into the technical data - let's ask ourselves some soul questions regarding the Ki-100.

If the Ki-100 had similar performance characteristics as the Ki-61, then why would production and development of the aircraft (Ki-100) continue, since there were other aircraft whose performance overall was superior, such as the Ki-84? I find it hard to believe that the Ki-61, which was outclassed by early late-war American fighters, could still be a viable platform? I ask this question arbitrarily, because like so many successful designs, improvements were made to the aircraft to allow them to retain their advantage, or at least keep pace.

So its my belief that the Ki-100 was superior in performance to the final production versions of the Ki-61. I do not see engine reliability as the sole reason the aircraft was kept in production and development. Of course, the bookworms will nay-say this, but until we can lay our hands on some performance data and comparative data against the Ki-61, its all speculation. Sadly, there are so many variables that we've failed to consider - such as the quality of the fuel and oil used, that even comparing apples to apples is subjective without having actual examples (in full combat trim) to compare and contrast.

So, can we at least agree that it would be an interesting addition to AH?  :rock

PS: You're welcome for the photos.

J

I agree JHerne, but it's just not worth arguing over the semantics with people.   I'd like to have it in game.
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Offline Shifty

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2010, 01:38:14 PM »
I'd love to see the Ki-100 one day. I'm a big Ki-61 as well. I probably don't have any main arena sorties in it, but I do fly it when it's available in the AvA.
These debates even when they get a little heated can be productive and interesting as folks start displaying documentation supporting their arguement. :aok

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Offline kilo2

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2010, 01:40:42 PM »
It's ok, he's on a very long "Ignore list".    I figured it was nothing dealing with the topic.   It seems perdweeb and sukov have taken it upon themselves to be the "defenders of the BBS", but ostracize themselves while doing it.   It's their choice to act like the 21-23 years olds that they are.   Mind you, I've never said a bad thing about them.   

I agree JHerne, but it's just not worth arguing over the semantics with people.   I'd like to have it in game.

Don't include me I have said nothing to you in this thread; and have only disagreed with you which is "ankle humping" or "trolling." Quite frankly I have been polite to you even though I have a opinion of you that is somewhat diminished.  
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2010, 01:52:42 PM »
 :rofl   I knew you didn't have the self-control.   Thank you for proving my point.
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Offline kilo2

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Re: Ki-61/Ki-100 discussion
« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2010, 02:10:27 PM »
:rofl   I knew you didn't have the self-control.   Thank you for proving my point.

The only person I defended was myself.

I don't know how my name even came up? Maybe I have a ankle humper now  :x Karaya my first ankle humper woohoo.
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