Angela Merkel

[Ardy123]

you're driving with your wife, and kids.  car blows a traffic light, broadsides you. you're the only survivor in the van. illegal driving the car that hit ya.
 would you still feel that they should be allowed here?

Cap, the fact that they blew through the red light and killed the family except the driver would make them criminal, regardless of being illegal or not. Any way you cut it is, vehicular manslaughter in the very least. The situation could easily be replaced with 'a drunk driver', a 'a driver texting on his/her cell phone', etc.... The fact was the driver blew through the light, not that the driver was illegally here.

[CAP1]

Cap, the fact that they blew through the red light and killed the family except the driver would make them criminals, regardless of being illegal or not. Any way you cut it is, vehicular manslaughter in the very least. The situation could easily be replaced with 'a drunk driver', a 'a driver texting on his/her cell phone', etc.... The fact was the driver blew through the light, not that the driver was illegally here.

I CAN'T believe you missed the point of that question....well.....yea, i can.

 the point was, that had that illegal not been driving that car illegally, while illegally residing in the country, that accident would never have happened.

[Ardy123]

I CAN'T believe you missed the point of that question....well.....yea, i can.

 the point was, that had that illegal not been driving that car illegally, while illegally residing in the country, that accident would never have happened.

The same 'logic' would be used for all the example cases used to replace 'illegal immigrant'.

If the driver was not driving drunk, then the accident would not have happened.
If the driver was not texting, then the accident would not have happened.
etc..etc..etc...

look at this... I can rearrange the same question to fit any situation...

you're driving with your wife, and kids.  car blows a traffic light, broadsides you. you're the only survivor in the van. cap1 is driving the car, pretending its a p38, that hit ya.
would you still feel that they should be allowed here?

If cap wasn't there, he wouldn't have hit you (stated in a moron voice).

[CAP1]

The same 'logic' would be used for all the example cases used to replace 'illegal immigrant'.

If the driver was not driving drunk, then the accident would not have happened.
If the driver was not texting, then the accident would not have happened.
etc..etc..etc...

look at this... I can rearrange the same question to fit any situation...

you're driving with your wife, and kids.  car blows a traffic light, broadsides you. you're the only survivor in the van. cap1 is driving the car, pretending its a p38, that hit ya.
would you still feel that they should be allowed here?

If cap wasn't there, he wouldn't have hit you (stated in a moron voice).

funny you hit on a couple other things i have big issues with..........

do you think it's ok to do those too?

[Ardy123]

funny you hit on a couple other things i have big issues with..........

do you think it's ok to do those too?

no, but my point was that your illogical question can be applied to any situation, even pretending to fly a p38 while driving. It proves nothing other than if the other car wasn't there to hit you it wouldn't have.

[Serenity]

You guys switched really fast.  The original question still is, if illegal immigrants don't do the low jobs that we don't want, then who will? Some of you guys are unemplyed will you work on the fields for minimum. Wage?  You really want to get rid of illegal immigration put your money where your mouth is, encourage yourself or your kids or your neighbors to take the jobs back look for jobs in farms, carwashez, gas stations,  dishwashers etc. 

Wow I just have a great idea, let's have a national find me a minimum or less than minimum wage day.  All true patriots should join since this will be the sure way to get rid if illegal immigration.


Semp

What Cap and VonMessa said: LEGAL immigrants and young teens. My first job was working minimum wage as a janitor. Next semester, when my schedule opens up, I'm probably going to be picking up another minimum wage job in fast food, or something similar.

LEGAL immigrants are willing to do the work, for MINIMUM wage. However, ILLEGALS do it even cheaper and don't have as many bills to pay.

Also, let me point out, you folks ALWAYS point at the educated individuals around you and say "Why aren't YOU working in a farm then?" Messa hit it on the head: You look to the people who have invested years and a small fortune into their education and career experience so they WON'T be working for minimum wage. There are kids who don't have that skill set out working their arses off every day.

[CAP1]

no, but my point was that your illogical question can be applied to any situation, even pretending to fly a p38 while driving. It proves nothing other than if the other car wasn't there to hit you it wouldn't have.

this is true. we finally agree on something.

if i were pretending to fly a p38 while driving my dakota at 75mph down the freeway, and i cause a major pile-up, then guess what? i'm now the criminal, and should be treated as such.  i shouldn't have been there if i wanted to pretend to fly a p38.

 if a drunk driver were placed into the question i asked, then same thing. he should be treated as a criminal, and will be. he shou'dn't have been there if he wanted to get drunk off his butt.

 if an illegal does it.....well.....he should not have been able to, as he's already illegally here.

 

[guncrasher]

What Cap and VonMessa said: LEGAL immigrants and young teens. My first job was working minimum wage as a janitor. Next semester, when my schedule opens up, I'm probably going to be picking up another minimum wage job in fast food, or something similar.

LEGAL immigrants are willing to do the work, for MINIMUM wage. However, ILLEGALS do it even cheaper and don't have as many bills to pay.

Also, let me point out, you folks ALWAYS point at the educated individuals around you and say "Why aren't YOU working in a farm then?" Messa hit it on the head: You look to the people who have invested years and a small fortune into their education and career experience so they WON'T be working for minimum wage. There are kids who don't have that skill set out working their arses off every day.

then food for thought, why arent they doing the job right now? no, seriously with the unemployment rate we have now, you would think that there would be lots of unemployed folks trying to get these jobs that illegals are doing right now, but that is not the case right now, is it?

and cap1 to give you an idea of how selective we are at calling somebody a criminal.  I dont introduce my gf as a criminal to my friends, and neither do you, or any of your friends.  she got a dui after years of driving drunk, which according to the law, she's a criminal, and so is everybody that ever got a ticket, dui, any offense, not matter how big or small.  so do you call your friends or family criminals?  of course not, because that term only applies to a certain group. 

and for the record, i am not pro illegal immigration, but I am not naive to think that if we get rid of all of them, the jobs will be done by citizens or legal immigrants.

semp

[Serenity]

then food for thought, why arent they doing the job right now? no, seriously with the unemployment rate we have now, you would think that there would be lots of unemployed folks trying to get these jobs that illegals are doing right now, but that is not the case right now, is it?

Because those jobs are currently being filled for less than minimum wage, which is MINIMUM for a reason.

[CAP1]

then food for thought, why arent they doing the job right now? no, seriously with the unemployment rate we have now, you would think that there would be lots of unemployed folks trying to get these jobs that illegals are doing right now, but that is not the case right now, is it?

and cap1 to give you an idea of how selective we are at calling somebody a criminal.  I dont introduce my gf as a criminal to my friends, and neither do you, or any of your friends.  she got a dui after years of driving drunk, which according to the law, she's a criminal, and so is everybody that ever got a ticket, dui, any offense, not matter how big or small.  so do you call your friends or family criminals?  of course not, because that term only applies to a certain group. 

and for the record, i am not pro illegal immigration, but I am not naive to think that if we get rid of all of them, the jobs will be done by citizens or legal immigrants.

semp

did she continue driving drunk?

 go back..aawww..hell....wait.... .here. i'll put the link here again.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

go there and read the entire article. pay attention when you do....don't just "scan" through it so you can say you read it. really read it. you'll learn why nothing is being done about it now.

[dedalos]

I am a few pages late, but I'd like to make a point.  It seems that what it comes down do is that some people take without giving back.  However, it seems to me that the real issue is that "Hey, I payed my taxes working my butt off, minimum wage, my mom never got public aid, etc etc".  Meaning, I paid, why aren't they paying.  So, given that attitude I sagest the following.  Take back from the society only in proportion to what you payed.  We all take every day by using schools, police, using roads, infrastructure but it does not bother us.  It only bothers us if someone we think has not payed is taking.  And I say we think because we really know nothing about them other than a few lines some unknown poster typed here.  So, here is the change.  Only take back in proportion to what you gave.  If I payed taxes on 150,000$ salary and you only payed on 40,000$ I would like to use the paved roads and you use the dirt streets.  I'd like to use the good schools and your kids should go to the ones the taxes you payed on your 40K or 30K salary helped build.  It sounds to me that this is what you guys think is fair so lets do it.

My point is, you are bothered by what someone may be taking but you are not bothered about what you took.  You think that your minimum wage taxes buy you the right to judge and dictate what other people should do based on the fact that you payed and they didn't    Lets cut the BS.  You probably got everything back on a tax refund at the end of the year.  What should the people whose taxes for year equal your life time earnings should be asking for then?  Should they be judging your decision and telling you what to do?  After all, it was your decisions that made you earn less than them.

I call hypocrisy    Lets start acting as a society that cares about each other.  My brother in law was whining about the same issues.  He could not accept that he was paying for someone else.  BS of coarse since his 26K driving a truck paid for nothing.  He got most of it back as a refund.  He lost his job last week.  Is it ok for me to pay for him now?  Stop looking at money to define a persons value in the society.  If you are going to, keep in mind that most people here are not worth match in dollars.  But they may worth a lot as a person.  The kid of the high school girl may grow up to cure your canser one day. But with your criteria, you wont be worth his time if he becomes a doctor.

Not directed to anyone personally.

[CAP1]

I am a few pages late, but I'd like to make a point.  It seems that what it comes down do is that some people take without giving back.  However, it seems to me that the real issue is that "Hey, I payed my taxes working my butt off, minimum wage, my mom never got public aid, etc etc".  Meaning, I paid, why aren't they paying.  So, given that attitude I sagest the following.  Take back from the society only in proportion to what you payed.  We all take every day by using schools, police, using roads, infrastructure but it does not bother us.  It only bothers us if someone we think has not payed is taking.  And I say we think because we really know nothing about them other than a few lines some unknown poster typed here.  So, here is the change.  Only take back in proportion to what you gave.  If I payed taxes on 150,000$ salary and you only payed on 40,000$ I would like to use the paved roads and you use the dirt streets.  I'd like to use the good schools and your kids should go to the ones the taxes you payed on your 40K or 30K salary helped build.  It sounds to me that this is what you guys think is fair so lets do it.roads are a bad example. they are(or are supposed to be) paid for by the tax on gasoline. here in nj, that tax is(the last i checked) 75 cents on a gallon(gas is $2.61 a gallon here right now)

My point is, you are bothered by what someone may be taking but you are not bothered about what you took.  You think that your minimum wage taxes buy you the right to judge and dictate what other people should do based on the fact that you payed and they didn't    Lets cut the BS.  You probably got everything back on a tax refund at the end of the year.  What should the people whose taxes for year equal your life time earnings should be asking for then?  Should they be judging your decision and telling you what to do?  After all, it was your decisions that made you earn less than them.

I call hypocrisy    Lets start acting as a society that cares about each other. some of us do care for others. i do my part through Civil Air Patrol. My brother in law was whining about the same issues.  He could not accept that he was paying for someone else.  BS of coarse since his 26K driving a truck paid for nothing.  He got most of it back as a refund.  He lost his job last week.  Is it ok for me to pay for him now?he paid into unempoyment, did he not? his employer had to match those payments.   Stop looking at money to define a persons value in the society.  If you are going to, keep in mind that most people here are not worth match in dollars.  But they may worth a lot as a person.  The kid of the high school girl may grow up to cure your canser one day. But with your criteria, you wont be worth his time if he becomes a doctor.

Not directed to anyone personally.

 it's not about the money. it's about them coming here, taking jobs that legal citizens would/could be working. they drive down standards when they do this. they break the law every second of their existence on this side of the border. they never stop.

 as mentioned above, i don't think a single one of us that've posted against illegals lacks compassion for our society. rather we care enough about our society, that we do not wish to see it driven into the ground, which is what is/will happen(ing).

 i give anywhere from 30 to 50 hours a month to civil air patrol. i am on wing staff here in nj. i am active in my squadron. i do whatever i can for these kids, as they work their tulips off to be in civil air patrol.

 if i recall, serenity also is a member of cap, and i think you'd find that this young man gives more to his community than a lot of older folks.

 

[oneway]

CAP1....

The analogy that comes to mind about this whole 'illegal alien' fiasco is that of a ship that has gone down in sight of land. The water is full of survivors swimming for the life boats. Their are dozens of lifeboats...

All of the 'victims' are swimming for a single life boat...because it has limited luxury amenities such as running water, food, sanitation and cold beer..

Everybody knows what is going to happen...but they ignore the certain fate and destruction...

There is only so much room in this lifeboat, and she is in danger of capsizing. Resources grow scarce and competition for them increases daily...

I am not into it at all...

These folks are more than welcome to join our boat...as long as they fill out the paper work and sign a contract to assimilate; learn our laws, culture, language and heritage...and promise to become American...

The rest can pound sand...

Out

Oneway

[Serenity]

CAP1....

The analogy that comes to mind about this whole 'illegal alien' fiasco is that of a ship that has gone down in sight of land. The water is full of survivors swimming for the life boats. Their are dozens of lifeboats...

All of the 'victims' are swimming for a single life boat...because it has limited luxury amenities such as running water, food, sanitation and cold beer..

Everybody knows what is going to happen...but they ignore the certain fate and destruction...

There is only so much room in this lifeboat, and she is in danger of capsizing. Resources grow scarce and competition for them increases daily...

I am not into it at all...

These folks are more than welcome to join our boat...as long as they fill out the paper work and sign a contract to assimilate; learn our laws, culture, language and heritage...and promise to become American...

The rest can pound sand...

Out

Oneway

QFT brother, every word of it!

[dedalos]

it's not about the money. it's about them coming here, taking jobs that legal citizens would/could be working. they drive down standards when they do this. they break the law every second of their existence on this side of the border. they never stop.

 as mentioned above, i don't think a single one of us that've posted against illegals lacks compassion for our society. rather we care enough about our society, that we do not wish to see it driven into the ground, which is what is/will happen(ing).

 i give anywhere from 30 to 50 hours a month to civil air patrol. i am on wing staff here in nj. i am active in my squadron. i do whatever i can for these kids, as they work their tulips off to be in civil air patrol.

 if i recall, serenity also is a member of cap, and i think you'd find that this young man gives more to his community than a lot of older folks.

 

Was not talking about e legal aliens.  As I said, I am a few pages late.  I was referring to the earlier comments about the little slut that had 5 kids.  It would have been perfectly fine if daddy had a mill in the bank no?

As for the elegal aliens, the difference between a legal and an elegal is about 800 - 2000$ in fees.  Status does not transform the person.  Some are great some are garbage.  I dont see how you can put all of the in one bucket and claim that the legals are good and the elegals are bad.   As for the jobs they take, yeah, there is huge line of blond kids with blue eyes waiting to become fry cooks and busboys