Kamikaze in FSO

[slayem]

I made a post in the wishlist section but will repeat it here for your thoughts. The one thing missing from
late war pacific set ups is the kamikaze factor. If a bomb value could be given to japanese planes it would give
outclassed japanese planes the chance to "Break divine wind" upon the enemy as in the real war and cause
additional damamge on their way to the great cherry blosom festival in the sky. It would also force the allies to
adopt the "Nothing gets through" posture that made their defensive stratgey so intense. It could be the
balance some late war set ups lack due to aircraft performance.
Your input is appreciated.

[Stampf]

I made a post in the wishlist section but will repeat it here for your thoughts. The one thing missing from
late war pacific set ups is the kamikaze factor. If a bomb value could be given to japanese planes it would give
outclassed japanese planes the chance to "Break divine wind" upon the enemy as in the real war and cause
additional damamge on their way to the great cherry blosom festival in the sky.

The Kamikaze's failed in their effort, and though they sank ships and killed sailors, they lost the battles they engaged in. 

If you are the Axis CiC for a PTO setup frame, are you going to throw the chance for victory away by losing more planes and pilots (point value) than you are inflicting critical damage (point value)?

It would also force the allies to
adopt the "Nothing gets through" posture that made their defensive strategy so intense.

I think both sides in FSO already use that approach.

It could be the
balance some late war set ups lack due to aircraft performance.

Actually I believe it would make an already tough situation, even worse for the Axis, especially if the fleet(s) size and ack lethality was upped accordingly.

Your input is appreciated

A few guys have done it in past frames, out of frustration, or no chance of making it home, or just out of the chance for a laugh, some immersion, and a great screenshot, and it has been funny as all heck to watch, everytime for sure, but in my opinion that is where it should stay.  At least, as long as FSO remains and objective based situation with both sides attempting to carry the day.  Now certainly an operation could be specifically designed around the kamikaze offensive, like an Okinawa anniversary or something like that,  but I think I would fly Allies for that, unless of course their was something else for the Axis pilots to do for the other 1 hour, 59 minutes of the night. Of course that is just my opinion and your results may vary.

[Squire]

From a design perspective there are two problems. The first is you would probably need "2nd lives" which is a pain to try and implement for a variety of reasons, and secondly, many FSO players would not want Kamikaze duty assigned to them. For those two reasons I usually avoid trying to use Kamikaze units in FSO. If and when we get AI bombers in Aces High, that may be a time to have a 2nd look at it. Thats just me of course I dont speak for the entire FSO staff or player base.

Was going to add its also a problem to have the players "fly" like a Kamikaze pilot; to not dogfight and to fly a fighter loaded with bombs and fuel to the target, and the problem of not being abke to recreate a single engined a/c loaded with extra explosives ect and ealing with "violations" of the rules "I attacked a Kamikaze player and he dogfighted me thats cheating" ect ect ect...I see the whole thing as a huge headache without AI a/c to do the mission.

[Jonah]

It's not aircraft performance, its the pilot slayem. I guess your implying allied planes are better, but there have been mostly Axis victories in the last 6 months. If you feel the need to crash and go to the MA because its fun to you, by all means do so. I dont think anyone cares because the rest of the axis side will make up for the point losses you cause with kills.  

[StokesAk]

It's not aircraft performance, its the pilot slayem. I guess your implying allied planes are better, but there have been mostly Axis victories in the last 6 months. If you feel the need to crash and go to the MA because its fun to you, by all means do so. I dont think anyone cares because the rest of the axis side will make up for the point losses you cause with kills.  

Conspiracy theory.

[Jonah]

Conspiracy theory.

I'm biased because I dont like his people or his idea, but conspiracy indeed

[Shifty]

True Kamikaze attacks would not work. If your bomb doesnt travel 1000 feet after release it fails to detonate. You have to drop the bomb so you're still basically having to aim the bomb not just the airplane.

[slayem]

I'm biased because I dont like his people or his idea, but conspiracy indeed

Thanks for the serious input so far. Reasons make good sense to me. Jonah as far as best pilot wins i agree.
However, given two pilots of equal skill, he with the best equipment has a distinct advantage. As far as not liking
my people, I guess you have good reason. They can be kind of hard on those who flee and forsake their
squadmates when times get tough. As far as Swampdragons bailing on our missions in FSO, our results speak for themselves.

[Viper61]

Barring the admin issues with one way flights I like the idea of planned and designated K-Flights given this scenario.  I hate and complained about this when my squad was on the receiving end of squad sized K-Flights in past scenario's.  But if it were planned, with clear rules and authorized then its different.  To the point made above about cheating.  Gotta have clear rules and penalty's as well.

Give the pilots 2 lives.  No later than hit times like H+105, leaving 15 minutes for the ALLIED planes to land to avoid the H+119 strike while you are trying to land.  Realistic max numbers so that the entire IJN side doesn't go.  Limit them to the early war AC like the A6M2's / B5N's or D3A's.  Have designed attack by times for both lives like H+50 strike 01, H+105 strike 02.  This keeps guys from using just 1 life and flying around behind and attacking from an unrealistic attack angle.  Perhapes a frame 3 only addition given the dire position of the IJN forces at that time.  Likewise crank up the CV ack to a more realistic level and make it hard for them to get through the wall of bullets.  Or let the ALLIES man the guns.  Just ideas.

I think you would find a number of squads willing to take on the mission myself.  Such as larger squads with 2-4 pilots designated and the remainder escorting them in.  It would be very similar to a bomber and escort type mission, generally speaking.

I also don't think this would be an easy mission for the ALLIES to defend against.  But would be fun in the process.

Would be fun for the IJN side also pulling the escort mission to get them there.  The distraction mission to tie up the defenders while the K-flights come in NOE.  Deacking boats prior to the K-Flight arrival, to make it easier to get through.  Lots of ideas and concepts that would make it hard for the ALLIES to defend against.  Similarly to what really happened.

Again however the admin issues of assessing damage might be harder than it looks and thus a nonstarter.

And true the Kamikaze flights themselves were a failure in real life for a number of reasons which most of us have read about.  But this is cartoon land and it might be fun to see what happens just once.  After all this is a "What if" scenario isn't it? 

[Krusty]

Just.... No.


Really? No.


Period. End of discussion.


There was nothing noble about brainwashing the masses too scared to take a dump without permission of the Emperor. Throughout history suicide bombers have been intentionally lied to, duped, kept ignorant intentionally, told never to question authority then stuck into a C4-laden vest.... There's nothing noble about trying to mimick it in game, because it takes no skill. Millions of augers are counted every month in the LWAs. They are a sign of SHAME, not of skill.

Trying to indoctrinate folks into WANTING to do kamikaze attacks on purpose is mentally retarded ("deficient" if the filters stop that word).


Really.. If you want to emulate kamikaze, or muslim suicide bombers, or IRA car bombers, you have a screw loose and need serious help from medical personnel.

[slayem]

By that logic there should be no axis aircraft at all.
As to mental defects, the surest sign of ignorance is arrogance.

[Krusty]

There is a difference between seeing long odds, going charging in for the fun of it, and saying "F--- this, I'm suiciding and ending my life forever"

Even in a game there is a spirit of fun when you go into long odds in FSO. You never know. I had a heart-pumping sortie in a B-26 in frame 2 a couple weeks ago... Just about ran out of adrenaline, flying 50 miles and then some through enemy territory, bombing a field, and getting back out...

Yet I never intended to suicide, I never intended to give up without a fight.


You're just proposing a defeatist attitude, path of least resistance, no effort....

That kills the "fun" in this game, and just as surely would kill off FSO participation.


Careful, your arrogance is showing...

[FiLtH]

  A long time ago I did an event where kamikazes were used. We had judges on the boats and tallied the hits that way. Not every plane was a kamikaze, only a certain type, and it was the fighters job to get them there. They had 2 lives as well. Was pretty fun.

[slayem]

No krusty, I'm just saying they did them in the war and it might be another vector toward realism if we did.
Indoctrinating suicide minions? Really? I think someone is trying to blow smoke up my Fatwah.

[Jonah]

Thanks for the serious input so far. Reasons make good sense to me. Jonah as far as best pilot wins i agree.
However, given two pilots of equal skill, he with the best equipment has a distinct advantage. As far as not liking
my people, I guess you have good reason. They can be kind of hard on those who flee and forsake their
squadmates when times get tough. As far as Swampdragons bailing on our missions in FSO, our results speak for themselves.

Well im actually quite the opposite. Tomagina and you run at every chance you get. Him in his pony and you in your typhie for the sake of your score. Which by the way no one cares about.

I didnt do FSO's or missions with you guys because you were way to nasty, controlling, and just not very good at what you said you were good at. (i.e Winging up). FSO's with you guys were basically drop all your altitude and separate from eachother to hord a couple of planes, then panic when the other side would jump in and wipe you all out before 5 minutes past.

Thats why i hated flying with you and thats why you guys still cant kill anything. And even when we agreed to establish altitude and be smart about flying in FSO, everyone abandoned it. The only one who knows what hes doing is hymi and jr. The rest of you need to stay in bombers. The fact that you suggest using a perfectly good fighter as ordanence is just sad. And how long are the "tough times" supposed to last. Oh yeah and your "results"...Your squad FSO stats show you barely get over, if at all, the same number of kills as pilots in your squad.

So stop barking orders at eachother, worrying about score, and practice and you may actually have some fun in FSO.

By that logic there should be no axis aircraft at all.
As to mental defects, the surest sign of ignorance is arrogance.

"our results speak for themselves"

sounds pretty arrogant to me