Spend perks on 'engine upgrades'

[bustr]

Was I Just Beaten By Skill Or A MOD?

I can post this in Swahili if you need.......

You sound like Ralphy from "A Christmass Story" trying to finess a Red Rider BB gun by going the long way around after he was told he'd shoot his eye out. He still destroyed the lense in his glasses in the end of the movie. But I guess the point was about him getting what he wanted.....

Didn't you place a wish in here some time back for another 109G6 varient that had a db605 AES in it with zero results from HTC? You think doing a bait and switch will make HiTech think this is a completely different wish?

[Guppy35]

If you are going to go that way Ardy, you have to go the other way too.  Are you going to model wear and tear into the game?  Do the new players fly number 4 and get the oldest bird available?  Do high ranking players get their bird waxed and tuned?  Can a pilot choose to remove guns, armor etc for the sake of performance?  How do you model in the CG change when they do that?

Doesn't seem like much of a reasonable idea.

[Ardy123]

Was I Just Beaten By Skill Or A MOD?

does it matter that much? you died because you gave the other guy a gun solution. Beyond that, your looking for an excuse not a reason. Bustr, no need to get so emotionally charged over an idea thats not even a wish but an exploration of an idea.

for another 109G6 varient that had a db605 AES in it with zero results from HTC? You think doing a bait and switch will make HiTech think this is a completely different wish?

I did, thats not why I created this thread, it was only the first example off the top of my mind. Look at the first post, the idea was spawned from this thread...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299104.0.html which some people were talking about spits with different fuel octane ratings, which people have asked for in the past. If it does make you feel better though, you can imagine that I was attempting a bait and switch.

If you are going to go that way Ardy, you have to go the other way too.  Are you going to model wear and tear into the game?  Do the new players fly number 4 and get the oldest bird available?  Do high ranking players get their bird waxed and tuned?  Can a pilot choose to remove guns, armor etc for the sake of performance?  How do you model in the CG change when they do that?

Doesn't seem like much of a reasonable idea.

Thats a good point, I don't know, as for the CG issue, do whatever they are doing today with aircraft with different gun packages.

As for the balancing, maybe what you can do is model it such that if you select an item, it always consumes the perk points regardless if you land or not. That way you could not keep the 'modded' version for long.

[Guppy35]

I mention the CG issue as I remember reading a book by a New Zealand Spitfire pilot.  He did all kinds of stuff to his Spitfire Vc to improve performance, including removing the paint, 303s, changing the exhaust stacks and removing the armor plate. 

The Spit afterwards was much more unstable but had better speed and performance.  Other pilots didn't want to fly that bird.  He was willing to live with the trade off after doing all the work

Throw in quality control stuff in wartime production and one bird coming off the line vs the next might have different performance.  Lots of stories of guys coming across a bird that was 'just right'.  Also stories of "rogue' birds that always had something wrong with them no matter how much tweaking was done.

[Ardy123]

I mention the CG issue as I remember reading a book by a New Zealand Spitfire pilot.  He did all kinds of stuff to his Spitfire Vc to improve performance, including removing the paint, 303s, changing the exhaust stacks and removing the armor plate. 

The Spit afterwards was much more unstable but had better speed and performance.  Other pilots didn't want to fly that bird.  He was willing to live with the trade off after doing all the work

Throw in quality control stuff in wartime production and one bird coming off the line vs the next might have different performance.  Lots of stories of guys coming across a bird that was 'just right'.  Also stories of "rogue' birds that always had something wrong with them no matter how much tweaking was done.

Thats pretty cool story, did not know that they gave pilots that much leeway to their airplanes. As for 'rogue' birds, I know that a lot of German birds in the end of the war were plagued by issues because they were made by slave labor which attempted to sabotage the product.

[bustr]

The quality of a players PC and internet connection cannot be controled by HTC. Those in their own way act as random MOD's negatively or positively across the arena. The very randomness in it's own way is historic in nature. The best control HTC has which all involved can rely on is the standardised offering in the hanger. I think you know all of this.

What do you gain by being able to purchase an advantage outside of knowing HiTech trys to provide a level playing feild for everyone? Your personal skill level is such that you have less problems than the average player in easily picking up additional perks to maintain an ongoing MOD'd engine in your favorite ride. The same for fuel if it is as simple as an octane advantage. With your skill advantages why do you need an edge in a pond full of baby seals?

By now I would have thought like Kermit you would have reverted to an Emil or Ki61 to challenge yourself rather than your K4/G14 Bratwurst Rocket. Ooops....viscious circle....then you would have all those piles of perk points because you are expertin enough from what I've seen to fly early war birds through late war furballs. But, why would you need to purchase an advantage when you outclass 4/5 of the arena? I've noticed over the years it's generaly a veteran who asks for some MOD to the game which for the most part would only benifit everyone in the upper 5th or so of the game.

This will only result in giving the already highly talented perk rich minority that much more in their excesive tool kit to harvest the baby seals. So do you have any ideas to help the other 4/5 of the games population? A 3-perk K14d or GGS MkII Gyro sight would have a direct impact on gameplay for the baby seals. The EZ 42 was used in a few 190 and 262......

Revenge of the Baby Seals......... <-----WoW, and just last tour you were championing the Sqweekers and how we treat them in the game.

I officialy request the GGS Gyro gunsight and its K14 american derivitive introduced into the game as a low perk MOD to help all of the struggling new players. Wonder if this will get me elected the AH Cheif Pooper Scooper and Elephant Washer?.......

[Ardy123]

Bustr,
I wish I was as good as you make me out to be, I regularly get killed by all kinds of rides, by all kinds of pilots. Honestly, most success is about numbers. If I have to fight more than 1 con at one time and I don't have an advantage, I'm usually dead meat. Once there is a group situation where its one group against another group (think large furball), its more about SA and working together than about individual skill (and I have the SA of Ray Charles ).

You do bring up a good point, that the newcomers are at a huge disadvantage and this would only exasperate that issue. What if new pilots, received a preset number of perks when they first start?

I know that there are the 'trainers', but when I started out, there were almost never anyone in the TA and setting up regular times for most people who have a job/family/etc.. RL to content to is difficult. I'd almost say, that there should be a mentoring process available for new comers, to have some vet stick as a mentor to a new stick, given that the learning curve is as steep as it already is. For example, Agent360 kinda took me under his wing when I started and taught me a lot. I'm happy to do the same for others. Maybe if there was a list of available mentors and new sticks could sign their name next to the mentor whom they would wing with them. To show them the ropes, etc..

If thats too big of an issue, maybe just have some of the extended options available for the scenarios where they would be applicable/more historically accurate. For example, today, for the allied bombing scenarios, it would be nice to have the 109G6 with the 30mill and the AES high alt engine. This of course would also go for having some of the modifications and extended options for the allied rides such as other variants of the B17, etc...

WoW, and just last tour you were championing the Sqweekers and how we treat them in the game.

And I still am, I don't believe being an a-hole to noobs is the way we should be doing things, but shooting down your opponent and being abusive on 200 to new people are totally different issues so please don't misconstrue them.

[bustr]

***********
If thats too big of an issue, maybe just have some of the extended options available for the scenarios where they would be applicable/more historically accurate. For example, today, for the allied bombing scenarios, it would be nice to have the 109G6 with the 30mill and the AES high alt engine. This of course would also go for having some of the modifications and extended options for the allied rides such as other variants of the B17, etc...

**********

Two pages to get to the heart of it. If Agent trained you. You are good enough to stuff your perk bank to the breaking point in an Emil.

In the MA....the current G6, G14 and K4 cover the high end of the family. Sounds like the old wish for Umrüst-Bausätze kits and  Rüstsätze kits. If it's engines, are you sure you simply haven't seen from your reading where the later DB 605 series had larger diameter super chargers, MW boost and sexier fuel. And you saw where some limited number G varients had a few examples, so this got you thinking like a Hot Rodder that you could blow some doors down in the MA with a 20 in the nose and gondolas for snap shots in furballs. Maybe we don't want the Fiat G55 with three cannons hosing through our furballs.

Wasn't the difference between the the G6 and G14 really a Umrüst-Bausätze kit feild MOD on a G-6/U2 before that MOD was accepted as the standard G14? And then the G10 was somewhere between the G14 and K4? So isn't HiTech in his wisdom simply providing the end results of the evolutionairy steps from E4, F4, G2, G6, G14 and K4 as the accumulation of kits and fixes that it took to achive each major varient? That idea is no fun is it.....

The 109 dweebs lament. Oh if the G6\G14 kept it's speed on WEP with gondolas. I could hose you like a Spixteen with Hizookas in the snap shot......

In general I think it would be more fair to the other 4/5 of the community if HTC gave us the 3 cannon G55 rather than a complicated menu of Umrüst-Bausätze kits and  Rüstsätze kits so the LuftLusters can MuscleMod their Bratwurst Rokets. Oops, but HiTech took care of that for us.

By the way where did you come up with AES? In the oldest publiction I have from 1945/46 there is only a DB 605 AS or AM or ASB. What means AES?

Production versions (man look at all that later war LuftLust in the 1800hp to 2000hp range)
 
DB 610DB 605 A(M) Standard fighter engine, up to 1475 PS, 605 AM with MW-50 system up to 1800 PS
DB 605 B Same as 605 A but for use in twin-engined aircraft like Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 (different prop/gear ratio)
DB 605 AS(M) Altitude optimized version of 605 A using the larger DB 603 supercharger, up to 1435 PS, ASM with MW-50 system and up to 1800 PS
DB 605 ASB(M) Altitude optimized late-war version of 605 AS using B4 fuel, ASBM with MW-50 system and up to 1800 PS
DB 605 ASC(M) Altitude optimized late-war version of 605 AS using C3 fuel, ASCM with MW-50 system and up to 2000 PS
DB 605 DM First DB 605 D version, standard MW-50 equipment, up to 1700 PS
DB 605 DB Improved 605 DM, standard MW-50 equipment, first version up to 1850 PS, later reduced to 1800 PS [2], B4 fuel
DB 605 DC Improved 605 DM, standard MW-50 equipment, up to 2000 PS, C3 fuel
DB 610 Two DB 605 "coupled" (geared together), as a "power system", to work on a single propeller shaft for use in Heinkel He 177, up to 2950 PS (71.53L / 4364.8in3).

Prototype/pre-production versions
DB 605 BS proposed version for twin-engined aircraft, derived from DB 605 AS
DB 605 E proposed version for twin-engined aircraft, derived from DB 605 D
DB 605 L Similar to 605 D but with two-stage supercharger, 2000+ PS

[Ardy123]

Two pages to get to the heart of it. If Agent trained you. You are good enough to stuff your perk bank to the breaking point in an Emil.

so this got you thinking like a Hot Rodder that you could blow some doors down in the MA with a 20 in the nose and gondolas for snap shots in furballs

What is up with all this delusional BS? Please leave your accusations at the door. I appreciate your opinion of the idea but this nonsense is uncalled for. I do not dream of gaining some ungodly advantage over everyone, etc...

By the way where did you come up with AES? In the oldest publiction I have from 1945/46 there is only a DB 605 AS or AM or ASB. What means AES?

Buster about the engines, I was incorrect, I don't remember the exact designation (it maybe the addition of the 'M') but its the engines that were capable of the GM-1 high alt boost, which the standard engines were not, (GM-1 is not wep). The G14, I believe was rated to run at a higher manifold pressure than the g6 and had nothing to do with the GM-1 boost.

And you saw where some limited number G varients had a few examples, so this got you thinking like a Hot Rodder that you could blow some doors down in the MA with a 20 in the nose and gondolas for snap shots in furballs. Maybe we don't want the Fiat G55 with three cannons hosing through our furballs.

Bustr, in-regards to the engines, no, I wasn't thinking that at all, my understanding is that a certain designation meant that the engine had a higher altitude band, and the different engine was not a field mod, it had a different cowling, and was installed at the factory. To my knowledge, the GM boost did not improve engine output at normal alt, only improved it at high alt where it would normally fall off. Furthermore, in the MA, GM-1 boost wouldn't be of much value, as most of the fights are around 10k or lower. Its real application would be in the scenarios.

But enough of the 109s, there have been asks about spits using different fuels and I believe other similar requests for other planes (don't remember the specifics). All in all, the idea is to attempt to please all these groups while still trying to keep it in a semi-historical context.

[bustr]

HiTech has in the gross manner covered the range of DB 605 AS and AM with the G14 being Menthol boosted 1800hp WEP at sea level up to about 13.5k dropping to 1750hp on WEP. None boosted the G6 and G14 run about the same at all alts. Above 20k on WEP the G6 starts equaling the G14 on WEP. Then thats why you have a K4 with a DB 605 DC. But, if you want to tote gondolas and hunt bombers in scenarios, a G6 or G14 with gondolas at 30k is what it is. A pig dog poni fodder.

As for the spitty crowd. The things they want are to share their love of the spitfire. The majority of their wishs don't include a perked otption. If most players cannot work the magic in a spit14, none of the other minor magic they wish for will work other than seeing the option in the hanger and wondering why they still die the same as they always do. Same with any MOD's or R/U kits for 109's. Most players do not fly by the nuiances. These MOD's were nuiances in the real world from the primary issue production version trying to fill a nich scope. The primary mark versions we have in the game each are the end results of those trials and errors between versions.

It's not a delusion to question why a person wants a MOD'd engine or special fuel that would only be available through perk points. Most players know combat in the game takes place 12k and under. A MOD'd engine's or fuel's only purpose is to increase horse power above whats available in a known aircraft. Having to purchase the engine or fuel means it is special in the same way perked aircraft are special. More often only a small number of players will ever have the consistant perk points to learn how to take tactical advantage of the increased horse power in the standard release airframe being MOD'd.

I would say that is wishing for the ability to buy a micro edge if you are asking HiTech to add it into the game as a SPECIAL perk only entity. Other wise it should always be a major release free to everyone. If Tempests and 262 were to cost nothing, it would become a very dangerous sky for even Grizz. But, then those are examples of game killing major edges if they were free to everyone. Micro edges are along the lines of discovering an anomoly in the game that allows you to be untargetable until you stop holding down on the <Delete> key.

[Ardy123]

It's not a delusion to question why a person wants a MOD'd engine or special fuel that would only be available through perk points. Most players know combat in the game takes place 12k and under. A MOD'd engine's or fuel's only purpose is to increase horse power above whats available in a known aircraft. Having to purchase the engine or fuel means it is special in the same way perked aircraft are special. More often only a small number of players will ever have the consistant perk points to learn how to take tactical advantage of the increased horse power in the standard release airframe being MOD'd.

I would say that is wishing for the ability to buy a micro edge if you are asking HiTech to add it into the game as a SPECIAL perk only entity. Other wise it should always be a major release free to everyone. If Tempests and 262 were to cost nothing, it would become a very dangerous sky for even Grizz. But, then those are examples of game killing major edges if they were free to everyone. Micro edges are along the lines of discovering an anomoly in the game that allows you to be untargetable until http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=15&p2=84&pw=1&gtype=2you stop holding down on the <Delete> key.

I choose perks as a starting point, as its an existing game mechanic to administer some flight options, but that can totally change. Also, you could limit the applicable mods to only being available for a particular scenario, and then giving everyone enough perks to purchase it.  What would you envision as a 'SPECIAL perk only entity'? Are you talking about perk points that are always consumed, regardless of you making it back to base?

As for the engines in the 109s, here is what the GM-1 boost power curve would look. (the teal line) It clearly doesn't match the games for either the g6 or the g14 and giving people the k4 as a stopgap would give them an enormous advantage at most other alts.


*UPDATE 10000 meters = 32 808.399 feet*

The G6 with the GM-1 would have a climb rate of around 2000fpm where today both the g6 and the g14 are around 1000fpm. The K4 on the other hand has around 2350ish fps around 30000 feet. So today the K4 would be too much and the G14/G6 would be too little.

[Avanti]

Watch people put supercharged merlins on brews lol just kidding but it has adv. and disadv. because I'll think I'll be flying against a normal jug or 109 and have them out powering my plane

Well thats how it was in the war, you just gotta adapt and try your best

I think it would be great to see something like this! would make it very interesting

Avanti

[ACE]

Imo it wouldn't be a great idea because most of us know what each plane is capable of when it comes down to a 1v1 you wouldn't now what your fighting if ghe engine is upgrade and can do things that you wouldn't expect