Author Topic: B29 or ME 410  (Read 6144 times)

Offline SD67

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #180 on: November 07, 2010, 11:49:11 PM »
FWIW, Me410 FTW
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Offline Yeager

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #181 on: November 08, 2010, 12:42:49 AM »
Nixay on the 410!  Too much common bird there. 

The B29 now....theres a splendid once in a lifetime shot at greatness  :banana:
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Offline FLOTSOM

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #182 on: November 08, 2010, 01:34:25 AM »
I was talking about the luftwaffe and the BoB. without air superiority, Britain would have fallen and Britain turned back germany in 1939 there. El Alamein happened around the same time as torch yes but Britain broke the axis line at el alamein 4 days before torch began. they are already being pushed back before america stepped in


edit: also, hitler didnt care for africa, he left it for italy. the only reason german forces were deployed there was due to the fact that italy needed the help. hitler didnt want to deploy there.

Montgomery received alot of assistance from America, and the battle took place in the October November time frame of 1942 not 1939. furthermore the BoB was merely a side show for hitler that he soon lost interest in as he was never truly of the mind to defeat Britain, most of his attention was dedicated to preparing for and then initiating operation Barbarossa. Britain never held "air superiority" per se, actually at one point the RAF had been driven to the very brink of destruction. they did not regain any forward momentum against the Luftwaffe until the Luftwaffe was ordered to stop attacking airfields and fighters and to instead dedicate their efforts into the bombing of the cities instead. the BoB was not won by Britain, it was discarded and thus lost by Germany. there is a difference.

the bulk of all supplies equipment and men were being prepared for the commencement of operation barbarosa, the germany effort to put into defeating was half hearted at best and when Britain didn't collapse completely under the air war hitler just gave up on it and moved on to his real goal, the destruction of Russia.

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Offline palef

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #183 on: November 08, 2010, 01:44:04 AM »
Flotsom, that's a crock. Britain's serviceability and pilot availability outstripped the Luftwaffe's by a significant margin and they did win air superiority from late August on. Hitler was prepared to invade the UK. Once the Luftwaffe's Western Front serviceability fell below replacement levels it was obvious that landing barges were not going to be able to get near the shore let alone land troops. Logistics and training programmes begun in 1938 won the Battle of Britain. There is a myth that the UK was running out of aircraft and pilots. They weren't. Their front line bases were becoming increasingly difficult to maintain, but the switch to bombing London, probably in response to falling levels of available aircraft and crew allowed responsiveness levels to be maintained and forced the Luftwaffe to change to night ops.
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Offline Kermit de frog

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #184 on: November 08, 2010, 01:58:18 AM »
Flotsom, that's a crock. Britain's serviceability and pilot availability outstripped the Luftwaffe's by a significant margin and they did win air superiority from late August on. Hitler was prepared to invade the UK. Once the Luftwaffe's Western Front serviceability fell below replacement levels it was obvious that landing barges were not going to be able to get near the shore let alone land troops. Logistics and training programmes begun in 1938 won the Battle of Britain. There is a myth that the UK was running out of aircraft and pilots. They weren't. Their front line bases were becoming increasingly difficult to maintain, but the switch to bombing London, probably in response to falling levels of available aircraft and crew allowed responsiveness levels to be maintained and forced the Luftwaffe to change to night ops.


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Offline FLOTSOM

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #185 on: November 08, 2010, 02:19:41 AM »
Flotsom, that's a crock. Britain's serviceability and pilot availability outstripped the Luftwaffe's by a significant margin and they did win air superiority from late August on. Hitler was prepared to invade the UK. Once the Luftwaffe's Western Front serviceability fell below replacement levels it was obvious that landing barges were not going to be able to get near the shore let alone land troops. Logistics and training programmes begun in 1938 won the Battle of Britain. There is a myth that the UK was running out of aircraft and pilots. They weren't. Their front line bases were becoming increasingly difficult to maintain, but the switch to bombing London, probably in response to falling levels of available aircraft and crew allowed responsiveness levels to be maintained and forced the Luftwaffe to change to night ops.

operation Sea Wolf, the invassion of Britain was a farce from the begining. it was a bluff to try to make britain step out of the conflict. everything that germany did in the BoB constituted a halfhearted effort that was not properly equipt nor supported by the german war machine. it was more a practice arena for german pilots.

if you intend to defeat an enemy you dont employ a tiny fraction of your forces to do it. hitler allowed the minimum amount of supplies to be dedicated to the BoB, and in short time the RAF could not mount anything that you could remotely call a valid deffence against the Luftwaffe, until that is the Luftwaffe was ordered to stop attacking the RAF and dedicate their efforts against the cities. these are facts on record.

the barges you speak of were a visual bluff, many of them had no engines, were unservicable, could not support the weight of invassion equipment or were completely unsea worthy. these were a bluff for the RAF to see and photograph, it was a scare tactic nothing more.

germany was pushing britain off the map in every area that they came together until support from america started to pour in. war with britain was a war that hitler never wanted and failed to take seriously until it was to late.

as i have no intention of spending hours digging up sites and articles for you to read to support my statements i instead leave it up to you to find "unbiased" atricles and/or sites to disprove them.
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Offline Killer91

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #186 on: November 08, 2010, 11:31:57 AM »
You don't play the game?  Soon as you login to Online Gameplay you see it.


No i don't play anymore... But I'd probably come back if we had the B-29. Always thought it would be a fun plane to fly
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Offline Yossarian

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #187 on: November 08, 2010, 11:43:42 AM »
No i don't play anymore... But I'd probably come back if we had the B-29. Always thought it would be a fun plane to fly

+1
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #188 on: November 08, 2010, 12:08:19 PM »
operation Sea Wolf, the invassion of Britain was a farce from the begining. it was a bluff to try to make britain step out of the conflict. everything that germany did in the BoB constituted a halfhearted effort that was not properly equipt nor supported by the german war machine  BS. it was more a practice arena for german pilots.  Some warm up  BS

if you intend to defeat an enemy you dont employ a tiny fraction of your forces to do it. hitler allowed the minimum amount of supplies to be dedicated to the BoB, and in short time the RAF could not mount anything that you could remotely call a valid deffence against the Luftwaffe (so the bomber groups got unmolested right), until that is the Luftwaffe was ordered to stop attacking the RAF and dedicate their efforts against the cities. these are facts on record.  BS   

someone has been reading Schlowy's big book of WW2 again, I wish he wouldn't keep lending it out.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #189 on: November 08, 2010, 12:20:39 PM »
operation Sea Wolf, the invassion of Britain was a farce from the begining. it was a bluff to try to make britain step out of the conflict. everything that germany did in the BoB constituted a halfhearted effort that was not properly equipt nor supported by the german war machine. it was more a practice arena for german pilots.

if you intend to defeat an enemy you dont employ a tiny fraction of your forces to do it. hitler allowed the minimum amount of supplies to be dedicated to the BoB, and in short time the RAF could not mount anything that you could remotely call a valid deffence against the Luftwaffe, until that is the Luftwaffe was ordered to stop attacking the RAF and dedicate their efforts against the cities. these are facts on record.

I suggest you read about the Battle of Britain before you start expounding on reasons why it failed for the Germans.  You are incorrect on all of your points.

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Offline 321BAR

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #190 on: November 08, 2010, 12:21:58 PM »
operation Sea Wolf, the invassion of Britain was a farce from the begining. it was a bluff to try to make britain step out of the conflict. everything that germany did in the BoB constituted a halfhearted effort that was not properly equipt nor supported by the german war machine. it was more a practice arena for german pilots.

if you intend to defeat an enemy you dont employ a tiny fraction of your forces to do it. hitler allowed the minimum amount of supplies to be dedicated to the BoB, and in short time the RAF could not mount anything that you could remotely call a valid deffence against the Luftwaffe, until that is the Luftwaffe was ordered to stop attacking the RAF and dedicate their efforts against the cities. these are facts on record.

the barges you speak of were a visual bluff, many of them had no engines, were unservicable, could not support the weight of invassion equipment or were completely unsea worthy. these were a bluff for the RAF to see and photograph, it was a scare tactic nothing more.

germany was pushing britain off the map in every area that they came together until support from america started to pour in. war with britain was a war that hitler never wanted and failed to take seriously until it was to late.

as i have no intention of spending hours digging up sites and articles for you to read to support my statements i instead leave it up to you to find "unbiased" atricles and/or sites to disprove them.
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Offline Imowface

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #191 on: November 08, 2010, 12:37:19 PM »
lol do you mean operation Sea Lion?
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Offline FLOTSOM

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #192 on: November 08, 2010, 01:14:59 PM »
actually i have been reading books written by everyone else but Schlowy.....his "Sheep in Review" magazine has some nice pictures of "wild life" but other than that he tends to be tedious and long winded  :devil

you have to read some of everyone and find the non-self promoting truth that lays somewhere in the middle.

when the Luftwaffe propaganda machine says the destroyed say 20 British fighters on any given day but on the following day the British roll call and mechanical reports show only 7 planes damaged and 4 pilots MIA where do you think the truth is?

both sides propaganda machines are equally guilty of brutalizing the truth, unfortunately because the allies solely wrote the history after the war most of what we have is not based on truth but instead based upon the image they as victors wanted to present to the future historians.

the Russians were by far the worst of the offenders in this, but like i said read the front line reports instead of the propaganda and you will find a different truth that hides behind the story book versions. start with the battle of Kursk, that is a glaring example of the facts not living up to the trackable history. start at this site and then more on from there. http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm i use this as an example only because it is so big and so obvious a difference in so many areas that its easy to see the truth from the post battle propaganda.

the field reports tell a truth all to themselves.

the same can be done for each day of the BoB, it is way to much work and i am far to lazy for me to want to do for you, look at the reports that they use for resupply and repair of men machines and equipment. if you are willing to take the time then you can research the battle of Britain almost completely and account for every plane that was used where it was stationed where it was damaged/lost who the pilot was etc etc. remember, planes don't come back without their pilots, so if they say 5 planes were lost but 9 pilots never returned to roll call and 8 planes were in need of repair or removed from action completely then where is the truth?

i have given up on any history based upon the "historical record", show me resupply repair and roll call reports, then you have my undivided attention.

yes i meant "sea lion", my bad you are correct.

ack i suggest you prove your point because i have actually read a considerable amount on it. the fact remains it was never taken as a serious option for hitler. he never wanted war with Britain, he never wanted to invade them. his bluff was called and he turned his attention back to stock piling supplies for the invasion of Russia which took place the following summer.

this site is a good starting point for the British side of the BoB http://www.raf.mod.uk/Bob1940/bobhome.html i cant currently find the similar sites i have read for the German side of the story, just look im sure you'll find them.
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Offline Pyro

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #193 on: November 08, 2010, 02:08:58 PM »
Knock off the thead hijack please.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: B29 or ME 410
« Reply #194 on: November 08, 2010, 02:15:11 PM »
Knock off the thead hijack please.
lol I actually hit the back button to make sure the forum didn't send me to the wrong thread as it does sometimes. :D



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