Convergences

[Heinrich Ehrler]

Quick question about convergences:


I have read the write ups on the Aces High Training page but was looking for some "professional" opinions on the matter, rather than simply facts. This question is in reference to .50s only. Would a spread convergence be better with planes that have 6+ .50s on board? Or does it still seem to be better to have a point convergence with the .50s?

I understand the advantages/disadvantages of the two different systems but was simply looking for some opinions, as I don't have the experience quite yet to make the determination myself.

Thanks,

Ehrler

[Lusche]

I recommend reading this thread:"Scissoring" Convergance?

[Ghastly]

Purely my opinion based upon my experience as a casual, moderately average pilot -  you want one of two setups:

Generally, I prefer having all of the guns concentrated for the killing shot at 275 yards.  This is because as you go out much further, dispersion will limit the "conversion" effect anyway.  And bringing it in much closer makes it extremely difficult to maneuver for the shot at convergence, most of the time.

Another option I'm fond of, but which is not in my opinion quite as overall effective as all at 275, is it have as much as you can at 275, and the other at 400.  In the F4U (which is almost exclusively what I fly) I place the pair of guns that fire together at 400, and the 2 pairs that fire together at 275.

With this setup, I can "turn the runner" with a fairly decent burst up to about 800, but the biggest portion of my firepower is concentrated that for the kill shot when engaged.   However, with this setup I have a harder time getting the kill when fighting  - a lot of time I get what would be a killing burst into him, and do no "real" damage.  But on the other hand, I some times get the one that would have got away otherwise.

Again, just my opinion, and since opinions are what you asked for..
<S>

[Heinrich Ehrler]

That I did, and thank you for responding. Your opinion was especially helpful because more and more I am finding myself in a F4U-1A.



Thanks,

Ehrler

[The Fugitive]

I prefer to have my guns all set at one distance, usually 325-350. The reason being that my aim stinks, I just don't play enough to hone it in. So with my guns set all at one distance, when I do hit at that distance, big chunks are coming off.

[Ghosth]

My advice, forget convergence for your first year.

After that you'll be wise enough in AH to see patterns develop, realize if your screwing yourself up, have a much better idea of what your "style" is. All of which figure heavily in choosing convergence settings.
Before that first year is up you just don't have the experience base to play with it without causing yourself problems.

So set it at 300 and forget it for a year.

[Wiley]

Ghosth's advice is excellent.  300 is a very good convergence for .50s, particularly for a BnZ aircraft like the F4U.

If you do decide you must change it though, one thing I highly recommend is don't change it for a day or two, then try something different for a day or two, then try something different.  It changes the trajectory and aimpoints and doesn't give your brain enough time to get used to it.  I don't think a convergence can be reasonably assessed unless it's been left there for at least 2 weeks to a month of almost daily flying.

After you've had a while to get familiar with things, and get a sense of your 'style', then you might think about moving it in or out to where you do most of your shooting.  For example, in the twisty planes like the F4F, FM2 and soforth, I have them set in to 250 or 225.  I lose the ability to reach out very far to turn someone, but most of the time I'm firing at a turning enemy in close in that plane, so it gives me the damage I'm looking for at the range I'm doing most of my shooting.  To me, it really is as simple as 'set it to the range you take most of your shots at'.

I'm also a big fan of point convergence versus scissoring convergence.  With scissoring convergence, you have a spread all the way out, like a shotgun, with no point that it does really good concentrated fire.  With point convergence and wingmounted guns, you've got a decent spread at most distances, and one distance where it really hammers them.  I find that to be a good thing.

Wiley.

[bustr]

After many years I finally understand why the better DAers and sticks in the game use only a dot.

Whatever your convergence, you still need to develop the ability to know in all situations where to place your pipper before pulling the trigger. If we were in the real world, graticules with rangeing rings, compensation ticks and attiude lines would have some significance. But, the USAAF's original graticules were small rings with a dot. Original P38 graticles were tiny 30Mil with a big dot in the middle.

Because of the actual unzoomed FOV in our forward default view, the edges of the glass reflector plate on the gunsights aproximate 125-100Mil. Because we have the ranging Icon you don't need a 50Mil ring or marks to tell you your con is at 300yards. If you are dive bombing at 45 degrees, aim just above the hood of the engine for your release point.

So, what am I getting at? A clear feild of view to see through when you pull the trigger and to better help you make adjustments. Gunnery is about learning your POI from repetetive practice. Try this experiment offline:

Up a P51D with your current favorite gunsight with all of its extra thingies in the graticule and tracers enabled. Fly behind the cons and watch how you focus more attention to the relationship of the con and the thingies in the graticule to indicate when to pull the trigger, rather than seeing the whole picture in front of you. You get a form of tunnel vision trying to focus on the relationship between the range Icon, the atttiude of the con and the relative position of the thingies in your graticule. Shoot down all four cons before you tower.

Now use only a single dot graticule in the P51D. Start shooting the cons down. At first it will be a bit difficult. But rapidly it will become simple as your brain remembers the sight picture. Tracers will make much more sense now. They are not there to make you get your rounds in on every shot. They are a momentary visual clue to how close your stream is in real time. Some of the time you will be able to make a minor correction and nail the con. The rest of the time it's something to take home and remember how much more or less lead you need to use the next time.

So while you were nailing the offline drones using only a dot graticule. I bet you never realised how much easier it was to see the results of your shooting and make corrections, zoomed or not. Also with the dot you tended to miss closer because your POR is the small dot rather than all of the additional clutter from a traditional graticule.

Aim Small Miss Small.

FOV - Field of View
POI - Point of Impact
POR - Point of Reference

[Capitol]

On that same note, try practicing with icons off. I've found myself sometimes aiming based on the indicated range rather than simply judging the range as I viewed it. Discovered this when flying AVA and my gunnery was suddenly much better.

[PouBoy]

I would assume I'm in the small minority in the sense that, I mainly fly p-38's. I set my machine guns to 500, and cannon to 525. Granted they are nose mounted guns, so convergence doesn't exactly come into play here but from my experience, that slight difference between MG and cannon helps me out a little bit.

[kilo2]

225 convergence don't shoot till you close to 200.

[Ghosth]

Pouboy you are correct sir, setting the cannons slightly longer than the mg's can indeed help "lift" them so they hit in the same spot as the mg's. And 38 with its all nose mounted guns truly is the exception to the rule when it comes to convergence.

25 longer for Hispano's, 50 for other 20mm cannons. 50 - 75 for 30 & 37mm.

Use the .target xxx to test and verify.

[ACE]

Generally when I fly 50.cal planes I set all my guns to 300 convergence.  This allows me to where when I shoot all of my bullets hit in the same area.  Imo this works as a sawing action lol.

[HL117]

After many years I finally understand why the better DAers and sticks in the game use only a dot.

Whatever your convergence, you still need to develop the ability to know in all situations where to place your pipper before pulling the trigger. If we were in the real world, graticules with rangeing rings, compensation ticks and attiude lines would have some significance. But, the USAAF's original graticules were small rings with a dot. Original P38 graticles were tiny 30Mil with a big dot in the middle.

Because of the actual unzoomed FOV in our forward default view, the edges of the glass reflector plate on the gunsights aproximate 125-100Mil. Because we have the ranging Icon you don't need a 50Mil ring or marks to tell you your con is at 300yards. If you are dive bombing at 45 degrees, aim just above the hood of the engine for your release point.

So, what am I getting at? A clear feild of view to see through when you pull the trigger and to better help you make adjustments. Gunnery is about learning your POI from repetetive practice. Try this experiment offline:

Up a P51D with your current favorite gunsight with all of its extra thingies in the graticule and tracers enabled. Fly behind the cons and watch how you focus more attention to the relationship of the con and the thingies in the graticule to indicate when to pull the trigger, rather than seeing the whole picture in front of you. You get a form of tunnel vision trying to focus on the relationship between the range Icon, the atttiude of the con and the relative position of the thingies in your graticule. Shoot down all four cons before you tower.

Now use only a single dot graticule in the P51D. Start shooting the cons down. At first it will be a bit difficult. But rapidly it will become simple as your brain remembers the sight picture. Tracers will make much more sense now. They are not there to make you get your rounds in on every shot. They are a momentary visual clue to how close your stream is in real time. Some of the time you will be able to make a minor correction and nail the con. The rest of the time it's something to take home and remember how much more or less lead you need to use the next time.

So while you were nailing the offline drones using only a dot graticule. I bet you never realised how much easier it was to see the results of your shooting and make corrections, zoomed or not. Also with the dot you tended to miss closer because your POR is the small dot rather than all of the additional clutter from a traditional graticule.

Aim Small Miss Small.

FOV - Field of View
POI - Point of Impact
POR - Point of Reference

 Great Stuff Here   

[Muzzy]

Pouboy you are correct sir, setting the cannons slightly longer than the mg's can indeed help "lift" them so they hit in the same spot as the mg's. And 38 with its all nose mounted guns truly is the exception to the rule when it comes to convergence.

25 longer for Hispano's, 50 for other 20mm cannons. 50 - 75 for 30 & 37mm.

Use the .target xxx to test and verify.

What about if your machine guns are nose mounted and your cannons are wing mounted?