i almost hate to do this....

[CAP1]

but i will anyway.

was looking for comparisons of the p-38 to the p-47, and thanks to google i found the following......

P-51 Mustang vs. P-38 Lightning?
Both planes changed the course of the war but you never hear stories about p-38's being used anywhere except the pacific and vice versa for p-51's in europe. What is the reason one plane was only used in one theatre and not the other?

    * 3 years ago

and the best selected answer was.....

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
They didn't change the course of the war on the western front, but the P51 did contribute hugely to the destruction of the Luftwfaffe, both because there were so many of them and because it was an extremely good plane, especially the D.

P-38 were used on the western front, mostly in the Mediterranean area, the plane had structural problems that made it not really suited to the western front, though its firepower was deadly. It was however successfully in the Pacific theater, where it proved ideally suited with its long range and high altitude performance. It could not out-maneuver most Japanese fighters but it was faster and had a firepower that made mincemeat out of the lightly armoured Japanese planes.
The P51 was used mostly on the western front because that's where there was a great need for lots and lots of fighters to escort the bombers and replace the shorter legged P38 and P47, bringing down the losses among the US bomber flights and allowing them to go deeper in Germany. The first delivery of P51 on the Pacific front wasn't done until end 1944.

Amusing notes on those two planes, both names (Lightning and Mustang) came from the British who used the planes in real fights before the US did and gave them those names. They stuck.
The P51 was a British designed plane and nearly didn't go into production because, well, it was designed by Brits, not by Americans.


so......i thought the lightning was the first fighter to take the heavy bombers all the way to berlin and back? and i thought that even the p-47 with tanks made that trip before the mustang came along?

 so lets get some of the history buffs in here.........

one of the other things i had always thought(perhaps incorrectly) was that the "P" stood for "pursuit", meaning that its actual intended usage was to chase down enemy bombers, and destroy em....or if on escort duty, then to basically protect the friendly bombers by chasing away the enemy fighters, whereas the "F" designated fighters were more intended to fight it out with the enemy?

[Rino]

     P-47s with drop tanks could only make it to approximately Aachen, on the border.
The rest of those posts are alot of nonsense.  The English tried out an export version of
the 38 which they did not like.  The 51s were used for recon and tactical raids.

     This is the first I've ever heard of structural problems in the 38s, they had heating difficulties
but that isn't really an airframe thing.  It performed quite well in Europe as a ground attacker
after being replaced by Mustangs for long range escort.  It was alot cheaper to build a single
engine 51 than a twin engined 38.

[68ZooM]

Cap i was just reading some stuff on the net about the P38-F how it played a great ground support role, along with its fighting capabilities, thats kinda how i use the P38-J in the game, help GV's spot and keep the bad guys in the sir away

[Changeup]

To make your thread more interesting, 51's were used a ton in the Pacific theater in late 44 to assist in CAP for 29's going into Japan.  They were not remotely close to being a European Theater-only aircraft.  457th, 458th and 462nd Squadrons of the 506th Fighter groups which were a part of the 7th Fighter Command.

For you skinning guys, this site will have photos and a full list of the 51 names and nose art shortly along with the serial numbers and pilot names.

For you scenario folks....their mission profiles are already up and running.

Changeup

http://www.506thfightergroup.org/index1.asp

[LLogann]

I think we need to have a Braunco vs. SAPPER duel...........   

[JHerne]

The P-51 was not a British designed aircraft. It was an American designed aircraft built to satisfy a British requirement for an aircraft superior to the P-40. North American was asked to produce the P-40 under license for the RAF. At that time, the P-40 was only aircraft that came reasonably close to the RAF's requirements for a day fighter. Dutch Kindleberger offered to build a better aircraft for the RAF using the same engine, in the same amount of time it would take for them to ramp P-40 production.

The early P-51s (Allison powered) were not spectacular aircraft. It wasn't until the Mustang airframe was merged with the Merlin engine that the P-51 became what it is now considered to be - one of the defining US aircraft of all time.

P-38s had compressibility problems, but no structural problems. Just a reminder - while America's top 2 aces both flew P-38s, most of the early US aces in the ETO and MTO did so in a P-38.

P-51s took over long range escort duties for one reason - they had longer legs. The P-38s and P-47s certainly had the ability to handle the 109s and 190s that were attacking the heavies, but they lacked the range.

[cactuskooler]

To make your thread more interesting, 51's were used a ton in the Pacific theater in late 44 to assist in CAP for 29's going into Japan.  They were not remotely close to being a European Theater-only aircraft.  457th, 458th and 462nd Squadrons of the 506th Fighter groups which were a part of the 7th Fighter Command.

For you skinning guys, this site will have photos and a full list of the 51 names and nose art shortly along with the serial numbers and pilot names.

For you scenario folks....their mission profiles are already up and running.

Changeup

http://www.506thfightergroup.org/index1.asp

Also have the 15th and 21st FGs from the 7th who flew Mustangs to Japan. I'd love to make a 45th squadron plane from the 15th FG. I think their green stripe Mustangs were the best looking of the war.

Now to find an empty skin slot for the P51D..

[CAP1]

The P-51 was not a British designed aircraft. It was an American designed aircraft built to satisfy a British requirement for an aircraft superior to the P-40. North American was asked to produce the P-40 under license for the RAF. At that time, the P-40 was only aircraft that came reasonably close to the RAF's requirements for a day fighter. Dutch Kindleberger offered to build a better aircraft for the RAF using the same engine, in the same amount of time it would take for them to ramp P-40 production.

The early P-51s (Allison powered) were not spectacular aircraft. It wasn't until the Mustang airframe was merged with the Merlin engine that the P-51 became what it is now considered to be - one of the defining US aircraft of all time.

P-38s had compressibility problems, but no structural problems. Just a reminder - while America's top 2 aces both flew P-38s, most of the early US aces in the ETO and MTO did so in a P-38.

P-51s took over long range escort duties for one reason - they had longer legs. The P-38s and P-47s certainly had the ability to handle the 109s and 190s that were attacking the heavies, but they lacked the range.

i knew there were no structural problems.

 i can't find anything on google yet, but i had read a book called "combat crew" by john comer. he was a top turret gunner on a 17 over euorpe, and had mentioned that they were glad to see p-38's as they now knew they'd have cover all the way in and out of germany.
 he also noted that the jug and pony drivers would fly solo after a con, whilst the lightning drivers tended to work in pairs.

 if i can't find it on the net, i'll find the passages i'm looking for in the book, and photo them.......

[Changeup]

If you go to the 51 site...check out the engine start-up sounds for the 51, 47 and B-17....holy cow.  Ranger needs to get his hands on that!

Changeup

[CAP1]

Also have the 15th and 21st FGs from the 7th who flew Mustangs to Japan. I'd love to make a 45th squadron plane from the 15th FG. I think their green stripe Mustangs were looking of the war.

Now to find an empty skin slot for the P51D..

(Image removed from quote.)

what do you mean an "empty skin slot"?

are there limited numbers of skins that are allowed in game?

[cactuskooler]

what do you mean an "empty skin slot"?

are there limited numbers of skins that are allowed in game?

There can be a maximum of 15 skins per plane. The P-51D is very full.

[CAP1]

There can be a maximum of 15 skins per plane. The P-51D is very full.

that sucks.....and i like the one in the pic you posted

[AWwrgwy]

Hooray for myths and misinformation!!1!

 

They're everywhere.....



wrongway

[Ruah]

even as a non-expert, I read taht whol article as a line of crap.  I guess people are just lazy about doing real historical work.

[JimmyC]

.

The early P-51s (Allison powered) were not spectacular aircraft. It wasn't until the Mustang airframe was merged with the Merlin engine that the P-51 became what it is now considered to be - one of the defining US aircraft of all time.

built by the Brits ....merlin   ...says it all