i almost hate to do this....

[JHerne]

I'm just amazed that our British friends are now taking credit for the success of the Mustang, as if they're not happy having the damned Spitfire.

[Guppy35]

wait?  there was politics involved in this too? and i'm not trying to be sarcastic.......but that's what it sounds like.....

Bomber Doctrine vs Fighter.  Appropriations are what they are.  The Fortress and Liberator were sold as being able to go it alone without escort.  Nothing like a war to prove your point.  Problem was it had to be done with real lives and they were wrong.  38s got sent to the MTO.  Think about that there were escorts in England from the beginning that could have gone with the bombers.  Instead they got sent to the MTO.

Check on the history of the Jug in the ETO.  They were make shifting DTs, even though birds like the P38, P39 and P40 all had DTs prior to this.  By mid 44 the Jugs were carrying 3 DTs and going just about anywhere.  Mustangs initially didn't have fuselage tanks and only 75 gallon DTs.  This was later changed.  The first Jugs in the ETO had no wing pylons or provisions for DTs.  Makes you wonder how no one noticed how the LW faired in the B of B without escort, or the RAF early in the war.

The politics were always there.  Look at the egos that battled among the ground commanders in the ETO.  Leaders have their own agendas and hate having to admit their way might not be the best. 

[hlbly]

Bomber Doctrine vs Fighter.  Appropriations are what they are.  The Fortress and Liberator were sold as being able to go it alone without escort.  Nothing like a war to prove your point.  Problem was it had to be done with real lives and they were wrong.  38s got sent to the MTO.  Think about that there were escorts in England from the beginning that could have gone with the bombers.  Instead they got sent to the MTO.

Check on the history of the Jug in the ETO.  They were make shifting DTs, even though birds like the P38, P39 and P40 all had DTs prior to this.  By mid 44 the Jugs were carrying 3 DTs and going just about anywhere.  Mustangs initially didn't have fuselage tanks and only 75 gallon DTs.  This was later changed.  The first Jugs in the ETO had no wing pylons or provisions for DTs.  Makes you wonder how no one noticed how the LW faired in the B of B without escort, or the RAF early in the war.

The politics were always there.  Look at the egos that battled among the ground commanders in the ETO.  Leaders have their own agendas and hate having to admit their way might not be the best. 

It continued after the war as well . The entire century series of Fighters were not really fighters. Anymore then a F117 was . It took the fighter mafia to make things right . There is a gap from the F-86 to the F-16 between AC that can be considered true fighters . Look at the F-4 fiasco . Only the E model was  equipped with an internal gun !!

[mcboi]

If you go to the 51 site...check out the engine start-up sounds for the 51, 47 and B-17....holy cow.  Ranger needs to get his hands on that!

Changeup

i use mitsu's soundpack and a little bit of rangers as well and im not sure which one has em but they are already in my engine startup sounds

[Changeup]

i use mitsu's soundpack and a little bit of rangers as well and im not sure which one has em but they are already in my engine startup sounds

Me too but these sound different

[SWkiljoy]

Also have the 15th and 21st FGs from the 7th who flew Mustangs to Japan. I'd love to make a 45th squadron plane from the 15th FG. I think their green stripe Mustangs were the best looking of the war.

Now to find an empty skin slot for the P51D..

(Image removed from quote.)

If this skin was added i sure would fly it, looks pretty sweet. Please skinners???   
<S> SWkiljoy 

[Silat]

Here is one: how Neel Kearby whooped a 38 in a mock dogfight

Neel Kearby hopped down from the wing of his new P-47 Thunderbolt to exchange handshakes with  a slightly-humbled P-38 group commander.

"Congratulations Kearby," Colonel Prentice announced good naturedly.  "You shot me down in flames more than once."  Then, looking around at the group of fellow pilots who had witnessed the mock-combat over Amberley he announced, "I still think the P-38 is the best fighter we've got, but boys, don't sell the 'Jug' short!"

http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/11_kearby.html

P47 dives from above. LOL

[Ack-Ack]

P-38s had compressibility problems, but no structural problems. Just a reminder - while America's top 2 aces both flew P-38s, most of the early US aces in the ETO and MTO did so in a P-38.

Also worthy to note that P-38 pilots made up the majority of USAAF aces in the PTO with over 100 aces.

ack-ack

[dunnrite]

Also worthy to note that P-38 pilots made up the majority of USAAF aces in the PTO with over 100 aces.

ack-ack

Hmmm...

Easy mode plane?
 

[Ack-Ack]

but i will anyway.

was looking for comparisons of the p-38 to the p-47, and thanks to google i found the following......

In that P-47 nerd of the month club, I posted a comparison report between a P-38F and a P-47C and the conclusion of the P-47C pilot was that he preferred the P-38F over the P-47C.   


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

wait?  there was politics involved in this too? and i'm not trying to be sarcastic.......but that's what it sounds like.....

The 8th AF was commanded by officers with a bomber's mentality and a lot of their decisions was based on this mentality.  Also note, it was only the 8th AF that felt the P-38 wasn't suitable as a first line fighter.

ack-ack

[longtime]

P38=Kelly Johnson. Enough said.

[Changeup]

SR-71 = Kelly Johnson....don't even bother trying...

[JHerne]

Kelli Johnson - nuff said.

[Masherbrum]

The P-51 was not a British designed aircraft. It was an American designed aircraft built to satisfy a British requirement for an aircraft superior to the P-40. North American was asked to produce the P-40 under license for the RAF. At that time, the P-40 was only aircraft that came reasonably close to the RAF's requirements for a day fighter. Dutch Kindleberger offered to build a better aircraft for the RAF using the same engine, in the same amount of time it would take for them to ramp P-40 production.

The early P-51s (Allison powered) were not spectacular aircraft. It wasn't until the Mustang airframe was merged with the Merlin engine that the P-51 became what it is now considered to be - one of the defining US aircraft of all time.

P-38s had compressibility problems, but no structural problems. Just a reminder - while America's top 2 aces both flew P-38s, most of the early US aces in the ETO and MTO did so in a P-38.

P-51s took over long range escort duties for one reason - they had longer legs. The P-38s and P-47s certainly had the ability to handle the 109s and 190s that were attacking the heavies, but they lacked the range.

P-38's had plenty of range and the USAAF botched it from escorting Bombers.  It was about as close to criminal negligence as you can get, as those guys would have loved to have had the Lightning escort their craft.   Also, more than 100 of the "PTO Aces" did so in the Lightning, it wasn't just the Hellcat and Corsair over there.


"While in the pilot's lounge at Santa Maria Air Base, California, I overheard three P-38 students scorning their airplane.   They were saying the P-38 would not operate above 25,000 ft, or if it would, their instructor would not take them.   I found out their Instructor's name and cleared a flight with the students.   My briefing was short and to the point:  "We're going to take this four-ship formation up and we will continue to climb until one of you say 'Uncle'."  With that we took off, at 42,800 ft indicated on the altimeter, I heard a garbled "uncle" being transmitted by a throat mike.    One hundred percent oxygen under pressure made it difficult to speak at high altitude.  The formation was climbing at 500ft per minute when the flight was terminated.   That one flight convinced them that the P-38 was a high altitude aircraft."

Lt. Frank Shearin Jr, 343rd FG, Aleutians, 1943.