B-29 and current runways

[FLOTSOM]

     I don't know what HTC will make available for a bomb load, but if all the talk is correct, 40 x 500lb will be a common load out.  Destructive, sure, but amount of ord doesn't mean this bomber can inflict so much more damage on a single pass than any other heavy bomber we currently have.  Let's say I take a Lancaster up with 14 x 1000lbs x 3 planes = 42,000 lbs of ord.  Now I'm not positive on this part, but isn't taking down the HQ take 37,000 lbs?  Technically, a single pilot in the Lancaster should be able to take down the HQ, but how often does that happen?  Two pilots should easily be able to do it, so why does it only happen every once in a while, and usually only with a large raid?  There are many factors, including the puffy ack hitting the bombers, the 163s which even in the hands of an amateur like me can be dangerous for slow level bombers, and most importantly, getting every bomb to impact the HQ is difficult.  Even at a delay of 0.05, all the bombs can't get out in time to hit the target. Also, there is a little scatter in your bombs, especially at 30,000 feet.  The 91st usually takes 1000 lbers to drop on target rather than 500 lbers if we're going to be dropping at a higher altitude. 

     As for fields, even a B-17 can take down all the fighter hangers and vehicle hangers at a small field with 12 x 500 lbs, but not in a single pass.  Bombs fall under a bomber, and a bomber flies over a target in a relatively strait line.  Show me on this large field how you can drop all the fighter hangers in a single pass with as many ord as you want.

(Image removed from quote.)

I can't see how you can do it in less than 3 passes, and considering it takes about 5 minutes to go out, turn around, and recalibrate (not to mention getting a new line up on multiple targets); you could only prevent fighters from upping for a max time of 5 minutes.  That 5 minutes assumes perfect line-ups and perfect calibrations; difficult after a tight turn.

     I haven't heard any good bomber pilot exaggerate what can be done with this plane.  I've heard many doomsayer's predictions about the plane, but not a good pilot thinking he can take down an entire field in a single pass.  The bomber pilots I've talked too are excited about the B-29, but realistic about it's capabilities. 

agreed 1 pass was an exaggerations and i should have known better than to listen. unfortunately i flew as a B.O.P. for a short time, but in that short time i watched what thundregg could do with a single flight of bombers. his accuracy with a bomb is retardedly disgusting! hell modern day smart bomb makers need to talk to that man about how to aim properly!!!!!

as per the AH site the B24 carries 8000 pounds the B17 carries 6000 the Lanc carries 9000 pounds, if these are inaccurate then my lack of knowledge falls on the site. but if as you think the B29 will carry 20000lbs then it is over double the ord of each of the others. this makes the potential damage caused by the B29 much greater than any of the others when taken in comparison to the rest.

my point is not to argue against the B29, its here like it or not. my point is that if left without a reasonable defensive strategy they will dominate the game and will destroy the playability for alot of other players.

i will be very surprised if this plane does not change the game. if it goes unopposed and doesn't change the game then those who fly it don't have a clue how to use it to hurt the enemy. this would be the equivilant to using a 262 just to take out ship mounted ack, funny to watch but not of much use. i dont see that mentality lasting very long. you are talking about a game that has players that will hide CV's for 8 or more hours just because it P's off other people. the B29 will be used to destroy playability for others if its given a chance too.

[Karnak]

The Lanc's 9 x 1000lb also includes a 4000lb bomb.  The Lanc has an option for 14 x 1000lb.

[Chalenge]

Just like every other new plane the B29s will be seen frequently at first and then die down in numbers. Except for the Thndregg missions of course. The arena will not change much at all so save your breathe.

[Jayhawk]

The Lanc can carry 14 x 1000 lbs bombs, not sure why the Aces High page says otherwise but swing by it next time you're in the clipboard hanger and you can see.

I don't think it will change gameplay because I'm not sure it's the best tool for attacking an airfield.  Most people assume the B-29 will be perked, I agree it will, and should be.  That perking, IMO, is a major disincentive.  Even if the B-29 is perked at something like 75 a plane (a lowball estimate IMO), that's 225 perks for a formation.  Even experienced bombers aren't going to want to loose those perks willy-nilly, that's why you don't often see a 262 de-acking a CV, even though there are plenty of players who have the perks to spare.  Back to my original point, I don't think players are going to be as willing to loose their B-29s as they would a set of 17s or 24s.  Soo, that will push them up higher, 25-30k, and that takes a lot of time.  Why would I take a formation of perked planes, and take the time to take them up to 25-30k, when I can take a free formation of B-17s that will do the same job at 15-18k?  I think the B-29 would be best used as a strat buster, that's why I hope the B-29 is accompanied by major strategic gameplay changes.

[MiloMorai]

Some of the Lancaster's bomb load configurations from http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_bomb_loads.htm

Bomber Command Executive Codeword: "ARSON"

Target Type: General

14 Small Bomb Containers (SBC), each loaded with 236 x 4 lb No. 15 Incendiary and No. 15X Explosive Incendiary (1 in 10 mix) bombs. Total bomb load: 14,000 lbs.


Bomber Command Executive Codeword: "ABNORMAL"

Target Type: Factories, Rail yards, Dockyards

14 x 1,000 lb Medium Case (MC), General Purpose (GP) RDX or US short-finned High Explosive (HE) bombs. With mix of instantaneous (nose-armed) and long-delay (up to 144 hours, tail-armed) fusing.


Bomber Command Executive Codeword: "No-BALL" (for V1 sites)

Target Type: V1 and radar sites, armour concentrations

1 x 4,000 lb HC, impact fused bomb (Cookie) and up to 18 x 500 lb MC or GP bombs, short-finned with mixed instantaneous and delay fusing.

[VonKost]

How many players are really willing to do what it takes to mount a strategic raid? You have to start very far back so you cross into enemy territory at altitude (22k min), you may have to fight your way in and out and then find a safe field to land in. This all takes a lot of time and most folks seem more interested in getting into action faster. Do you all think that will really change with the B-29? I think it will be perked, but I hope only moderately so. I want to be able to fly it on squad ops nights. If it is really pricey then most folks are going to be very unwilling or unable to take it up and lose those points. Why put it in the game in such a way that no one will use it? What is the 234 perked at?

I think the 29 is generating a good bit of buzz and anticipation. Love it or hate it, that is a good thing for the game.

[Ten60]

I'm not sure if anyone has come up with this quote, but it comes from a wikipedia article on the Island on Tinian.

Tinian was captured by the United States in July 1944 in the Battle of Tinian. The island was transformed into the busiest airbase of the war, with two B-29 airfields (West and North) having six 8,500 foot (2700 m) runways. The four runways at the North Field are now overgrown and abandoned. The West Field runways are still in use as the Tinian International Airport.[3]

[Yossarian]

How many players are really willing to do what it takes to mount a strategic raid? You have to start very far back so you cross into enemy territory at altitude (22k min), you may have to fight your way in and out and then find a safe field to land in. This all takes a lot of time and most folks seem more interested in getting into action faster. Do you all think that will really change with the B-29? I think it will be perked, but I hope only moderately so. I want to be able to fly it on squad ops nights. If it is really pricey then most folks are going to be very unwilling or unable to take it up and lose those points. Why put it in the game in such a way that no one will use it? What is the 234 perked at?

I think the 29 is generating a good bit of buzz and anticipation. Love it or hate it, that is a good thing for the game.

I'd definitely be willing to do those long-duration bomber missions.  Not every time I fly, but probably once or twice a week (when I start flying again, that is...).

[Volron]

How many players are really willing to do what it takes to mount a strategic raid?

A question that is just as good is, "How many are willing to do it repeatedly?".

It's very hard to get the numbers, if not nearly impossible, to badly cripple the Capital in a single raid.  I'm not talking about, during Titanic Tuesday.  I'm talking about, during a standard day.  At this point, it falls on players that are not only willing to fly a long duration mission, but to do it 5-10 times (depending on numbers).  If the Capital is a good distance away (5-8 sectors away from the front lines, one way), you must have the numbers (12+ I recommend), or you are wasting your time.  If it isn't too far away (2-4 sectors one way), then this setup could work.  When it is just a few of you (2-4), then you'll have to chance it, take off from the nearest base and go in at 12.5 - 17.5k, otherwise you won't inflict enough damage before the Capital starts to repair itself.  If you have a decent amount (5-8), then you can probably take off from a deeper base and get to 20+k (no higher than 22.5) and make your run.  A good amount (9+), you can probably afford to take off at a base of your choosing, reach a decent alt (25K +/-) and make your run.  An 8th Air Force amount (15+), you will have little trouble in doing an extreme amount of damage at just about any altitude.

I have yet to meet people that would (or do) regularly do runs like this, at least on the Rook side.  I doubt the 91st (Bish) do this.  I know they up regularly, but to hit bases.  A solid target, don't get me wrong.  And let me get something crystal clear, I am NOT saying anything bad about them.  Maybe I have not been on when they do a raid on a Capital, but I do not see them doing it on a regular basis.  Do correct me if I'm wrong.   I am not aware of any bomber groups in the Nit side, at least not with the numbers of the 91st.  So I'm at a blank when it comes to them...

Personally, I am hoping that it is the B-29A we will be getting.

Applying the B-29, a third question arises for a strategic operation; "How many would be willing/able to risk this many perks to complete the Operation?"

I am one such person.



Hmm...we get both the B-29A and the B-29B.  Which would you think, would be perked higher?  I think the A would receive the higher perk tag, as it has a lot of defensive guns, while the B, even if it is a little faster, would have the lower price.  My guess is, B-29A: 100 perks per plane.  B-29B: 25+/- less than the A.

[Jayhawk]

Our strat raids are rare because the effect on gameplay is nill.  We enjoy the historical aspect of the game but also try to have an impact on the big picture. If strat was worth anything, you might see more of these raids.

[fullmetalbullet]

thats what they should do is make strategic raids worth it. maybe they might add it when they add the B-29.

[Serenity]

A question that is just as good is, "How many are willing to do it repeatedly?".

It's very hard to get the numbers, if not nearly impossible, to badly cripple the Capital in a single raid.  I'm not talking about, during Titanic Tuesday.  I'm talking about, during a standard day.  At this point, it falls on players that are not only willing to fly a long duration mission, but to do it 5-10 times (depending on numbers).  If the Capital is a good distance away (5-8 sectors away from the front lines, one way), you must have the numbers (12+ I recommend), or you are wasting your time.  If it isn't too far away (2-4 sectors one way), then this setup could work.  When it is just a few of you (2-4), then you'll have to chance it, take off from the nearest base and go in at 12.5 - 17.5k, otherwise you won't inflict enough damage before the Capital starts to repair itself.  If you have a decent amount (5-8), then you can probably take off from a deeper base and get to 20+k (no higher than 22.5) and make your run.  A good amount (9+), you can probably afford to take off at a base of your choosing, reach a decent alt (25K +/-) and make your run.  An 8th Air Force amount (15+), you will have little trouble in doing an extreme amount of damage at just about any altitude.

I have yet to meet people that would (or do) regularly do runs like this, at least on the Rook side.  I doubt the 91st (Bish) do this.  I know they up regularly, but to hit bases.  A solid target, don't get me wrong.  And let me get something crystal clear, I am NOT saying anything bad about them.  Maybe I have not been on when they do a raid on a Capital, but I do not see them doing it on a regular basis.  Do correct me if I'm wrong.   I am not aware of any bomber groups in the Nit side, at least not with the numbers of the 91st.  So I'm at a blank when it comes to them...

Personally, I am hoping that it is the B-29A we will be getting.

Applying the B-29, a third question arises for a strategic operation; "How many would be willing/able to risk this many perks to complete the Operation?"

I am one such person.



Hmm...we get both the B-29A and the B-29B.  Which would you think, would be perked higher?  I think the A would receive the higher perk tag, as it has a lot of defensive guns, while the B, even if it is a little faster, would have the lower price.  My guess is, B-29A: 100 perks per plane.  B-29B: 25+/- less than the A.

Actually, back when I was running the 303rd BG with Overlag and others, these kinds of runs were our bread-and-butter. I can count on one hand the number of squad runs we made that were LESS than an an hour in duration. Granted, we were a small squad as a result of this bizarre fetish, and eventually petered out. However, hopefully I'll soon have enough money regularly to come back in time for the B-29 and start the old long-range strat-runs again!

[ACB]

B29 will be a pain, but if 163s could up from every base, that would suck.  Guys fly forever on that 6min of fuel.  I believe the actual plane you didnt manipulate the throttle, i think the engines were lite and you rode the rocket up to alt and then dove down after the fuel was gone for the attack.  No gliding then boosting gliding then boosting.  And in the game they are one the most maneuverable planes in the game, a huge pain in any fight.  And they are tiny and hard to hit with guns.  I like the idea of only b29s being able to up from large bases. or at least limit it somehow.  Somebody said 262 would be good escort and intercept for these high alt uber bombers from my experience the 262 sucks above 25k.  almost all fighters suck up at 30k, except for the 163 and even that one you have to be careful maneuvering that high.  my 2 cents.

[MiloMorai]

The Me163 had a throttle.

“The engines were completely throttleable. Acceleration at first seemed surprisingly slow. The aircraft was poised on small wheel blocks, and when you went from ground idle to full power, the dolly wheels would roll over the blocks, and it took a while to build up flight speed. Once airborne, you accelerated to speed for best climb.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.walker6/komet/flight/flight1.htm

[save]

Just make all defensive guns not to hit at the same point, and most low unescorted buff raids would end like they did in the schweinfurt raid.