Beating a dead horse

[GunnerCAF]

Originally posted by Urchin:
I know I'm not the only person that thinks the niki should be perked.  But, just for the sake of argument, I want to hear from folks that like the niki the way it is.
......

I rarely fly the N1, and I don't think it should be perked.

Two reasons:

1. I have no idea what the makers intended to use the perk system for.  I have posted this question in the Gameplay area, and I have read the players comments and understand what many players think the perk system should be used for.  I think the perk system is backwards.  We should not take the easy flying planes away from the new guys with few perk points.

2. If this plane is perked, there will just be another plane that will need to be perked.  Where is this going?  Only the pilots with lots perk points can aford to fly the best planes.

I would prefer to learn how to deal with N1s before perking them.

Gunner <CAF>

[DeeZCamp]

Ak you are very sad indeed,... oh well though you fit in with a vast majority of the rest of the world.

You must fly a spit or n1k ? It hurts you so much of talk about them? You must be one of those that go and look to mindlessly furball? how wonderfull  

As for the spit/n1k
Oh,..how could anyone argue, a Spit/n1k are soooooo (Un)forgiving, lol hehe whatever.  

You put anyone that is new into a plane such as the n1k or Spit (wich is the case for all that usually just start out) and they find it easier to fly than other planes.

GEE I WONDER WHY?   Answer: BECAUSE they are SIMPLE TO FLY. you know OPPOSITE of COMPLEX?
Does that register with you? Can you understand that? wow I would hope so.  
 

My point beyond the fact that the n1k is on crack,... is that COMPARED to other planes the n1k/spit are SIMPLE to fly and REQUIRE less care and SKILLFULL application of ACM when in co-alt/E environment.

Heres a litte scenerio that maybe you can even understand.  Say you have a n1k doing 300 and a P51 Doing 300 and they are both laterally seperated by 2k headed in the same direction at 10k. Now they turn to each other and begin the fight. WHO HAS the advantage? and why?

MOST likey the n1k. IT can match anymove and also OUT perform it(UFO)   compared to the 51. THE 51 pilot will have to BEAT the n1k's ABILITIES given an = skill level between pilots.

 but whatever lol your going to debate this too so bring your nonsense.

[Beach]

I just want to say that i think the Niki is ok as is. I don't think f4c should be perked, personally i think the f4d is a better plane. by the way i'm usually in a la7 or f4d, sometimes i'll stray to niki (if being vulched) or spit.
BeachS
483rd Tactical Fighter/Bomber Group

[AKDejaVu]

Ak you are very sad indeed,... oh well though you fit in with a vast majority of the rest of the world.

Man.. does your nose get in the way when you look down on the vast majority?

 

You must fly a spit or n1k ? It hurts you so much of talk about them? You must be one of those that go and look to mindlessly furball? how wonderfull

How do you figure?  Because I don't think the N1K2 should be perked?  Because I think you exagerate and outright lie to try to prove a point?  How does that determine what plane I fly?

 

As for the spit/n1k
Oh,..how could anyone argue, a Spit/n1k are soooooo (Un)forgiving, lol hehe whatever.

Ummmm... you lied.  I'm not saying anything about the aircraft other than pointing out what you said was wrong.

 

You put anyone that is new into a plane such as the n1k or Spit (wich is the case for all that usually just start out) and they find it easier to fly than other planes.

Ah... I see...

So... how will one plane not be easier to fly than another?  How is that possible?  Please... tell everyone so we can all learn from your infinite wisdom.

Of course... we've moved from "UBER!" to "easy to fly".

 

GEE I WONDER WHY? Answer: BECAUSE they are SIMPLE TO FLY. you know OPPOSITE of COMPLEX?
Does that register with you? Can you understand that? wow I would hope so.

Ummmm... complex?  What plane is complex?  Are you sitting here trying to tell me that the P-51 is a complex aircraft?  SOOOOO much more complex than the N1K2 or the Spitfire... yeah.  I wonder why I'd have such a tough time comprehending that?  Could it be that it makes no sense?

 

MOST likey the n1k. IT can match anymove and also OUT perform it(UFO)  compared to the 51. THE 51 pilot will have to BEAT the n1k's ABILITIES given an = skill level between pilots.

Ah.. so it comes down to you simply believing that the N1K2 is a better plane than the P-51.  Well... that may be because in most aspects it is a better plane.

There is a double edged sword that is wielded by love muffines like yourself.  It says that you are a better pilot because you fly inferior aircraft (like the P-51D ), but if you should lose to someone in a superior plane... it will only be because of the plane and not the pilot.  You get the best of both worlds.

You have picked your poison... its time you just shut up and swallowed.

AKDejaVu

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DeeZCamp:
MOST likey the n1k. IT can match anymove and also OUT perform it(UFO)   compared to the 51. THE 51 pilot will have to BEAT the n1k's ABILITIES given an = skill level between pilots.

This doesn't make any sense.  Which abilities?  If you're talking about turning ability or E retention, then the N1K definitely has an edge.  If you're talking about top speed, high speed handling, and high alt performance, then the P-51 clearly outshines the N1K.

Wouldn't a N1K pilot require as much superior skill to counter a P-51 flying to its advantages as vice-versa?  Why not?  Because the N1K is easier?  Maybe easier to turn, but that's just one of many abilities that planes possess.

-- Todd/DMF

[DeeZCamp]

wow, AK I have to just say it you are not to bright are you  

 I guess you could not understand that a N1k is more user friendly(ala.. easier to Fly).

Also I think you need to learn how to intrepret(well heck there was'nt much)what you have read. Lets Think back to when you read "pilots  with = skill) ahh... remeber that sentence? comeon now try to recall it.

Now lets see if you can understand this,...
(lets go for a stretch, say an F-16 is up against a 51) Say the pilots have both the same level of experience and flight ability. Well it is only obvious who the eventual winner would be. THE guy with the BETTER weapon to get the job done. duh.. so yes IT would come down to pilot vs PLANE not only the skill level of the other pilot.

Even trying to debate this would show how jacked up your mind is. lol

As for the n1k being uber ... It is.. as for it being easy to fly IT is   no problems here lol


hehe perk it, dont perk it who cares now lol, you know what?.. Everyone should fly n1ks so the non n1k pilots should take it as a complement, becuase I know that it is SO easy to fly and SO ultra uber that it shows that they are taking the easy way out.    

I look to fly challenging aircraft so that I know I had to out fly the better plane when in any given situation.  haha whatever though, your a lost cause with this issue  

Oh yeah Ak, ive been telling lies.. Lies lies lies.. hehe I guess everyone else who has seen that the n1k has issues that need to be adressed also is lying lol.
     

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DeeZCamp:

(lets go for a stretch, say an F-16 is up against a 51) Say the pilots have both the same level of experience and flight ability. Well it is only obvious who the eventual winner would be. THE guy with the BETTER weapon to get the job done. duh.. so yes IT would come down to pilot vs PLANE not only the skill level of the other pilot.

Again, this depends on who fights which fight.  If an F-16 tries to turnfight a P-51, chances are it'll get a butt full of lead.  But obviously, a smart F-16 pilot will use the strengths inherent to his plane (which is just about everything except turning ability).

Of course, such an example is just silly, as the performance gap between the N1K and the P-51 is nowhere near the difference between a P-51 and an F-16.

You see, where you and I disagree with is who would win an equally-skilled N1K and P-51 fight.  I think the P-51, after awhile, would own such a fight.

-- Todd/DMF

[AKDejaVu]

Wow deezcamp...

What truly amazes me is that you feel you are smarter than the vast majority.

AKDejaVu

[paintmaw]

If you don't fly a spit , your a loser or a runner ? The only way a 51 kills my spit is when they dive in from 20k and I don't see em or they jump me .. Oh BTW . there were 200ft. alt.  furballs over England , so that is realistic . fun too

don't ya just hate these " my dad can beat up your dad ." threads  

[GRUNHERZ]

I really do hate nikis, but somehow I honestly dont think they should be perked. I think the FM review that pyro has planned should help. Although I have squeaked about the niki as much or (much more?  ) than anyone, you have to admit it was always about the same thing, namely its verical performance/e-retention and IIRC this is one of the things pyro said before could be off in the FM. So I say there is no need to perk it, just learn tactics against it and wait for the new FM, which should resolve any issues. It is not an invincible plane, very good yes, with innaccurate FM yes, but not invincible.  Now go out and blow up some of those flying turds, they really do look like big turds, dont they...  

[Dmitry]

it is very complicate subject.. specially when you look at angle, when a person asks to limit the use of another plane because its way better then his favorite ride.

You see, my favorite ride for this ToD has nothing to worry about from Spit's La-7's and N1k2's. The only plane that I have no chance against and it is quite common nowadays is P51D and less common P51B. They are just better than my Yak at any Altitude and do what I am doing to N1K, Spit and La7. B&Z me all the time. And they get away with that. now that pisses me off really bad and I have to admit that mustangs are my hated plane #1.  

But coming back to the topic of this thread I have only one thing to say.. N1K's are used too much. I perfectly realize why is that so. what i dont see is a solution (aside that FM will be remodeled) of lowering the plane overall usage without cutting from paying customers fun. But it gets nowhere, as I am forced to have fights with Spits and N1Ks all the time, or at least the majority of the time. And that is not fun for me. I can imagine the sky full of 202's. Would it be fun for me to fight that plane exclusevly for whole day? Week? months? Its been too long for me.. more than a months I guess.  

I guess what I want is seeing less Spit's and N1Ks. even if that would mean that there will be many more mustangs looking for me   The whole Idea is to bring the Arena into balance and lowering Tempest perk cost will help a little IMO. The way it is now, you cant earn much in N1K or even Spit9. If we get some cool planes and have some perk value for them that will encourage ppl to get the perk points for planes... not for perks itself. Having a 70 point perk Tempest as the only perk fighter (i am not even talking about Ta152) is not helping situation much.

I am with both hands to vote for balance... if it means to perk everything then I am for perking everything. changing ENY value, advertisment, squad dedication to specific A/C.... i mean anything.

Looks like a crussade quest to me anyway  

<S>

[lazs1]

Ok, I fly the Dhog.  1v1 I'm in trouble with most planes.  I can snapshoot em but it's hard to kill em before i'm so slow i'm in trouble.   I don't try 1v1.   i like a crowd.  the best situation for me is at least 3 planes on each side... The more the merrier.  In that instance the nik is no, or only a minor threat, maybe the 4th or fifth most dangerous plane in the game.   I can snapshoot him because he is allway occupied.   I can run away it things get to tense.  I can turn back when he breaks off from chasing me to fight the tail he has attracted...

The la7 is a nightmare tho.  It can accelerate to my slow but diving hog.   It can use the vertical to avoid me.   It can even outurn me (that shouldn't happen).   When I run low on ammo or fuel or when I just  want to go home the nik is no threat but the lag is a nightmare.

If you are losing to a nik then you are not in the right fite or not fighting right.   If you are losing to lags.... Not much you can do about that.

I also think niks seem overly tough tho.
lazs

[ra]

ALL planes should be perked based on the % of air-to-air kills they scored in the last tour.  Anything under 5% would be un-perked.  Every 1% over 5% would be a perk point.  That way no one can argue that this or that plane should cost more than the other.  It would also allow the Ta-152 and the Tempest to earn a real perk cost instead of an arbitrary one.  

ra

[Urchin]

Laz- I can see where you would be in trouble 1v1 in a D-Hog.  I also like to fly in a SMALL furball, maybe 3v3 or 4v4- because in that situation I can be rather inconspicious.  1v1 the 109F4 is not a bad plane- it is slow, but it climbs pretty well and turns pretty well (it can outturn an LA7).  The problem I've been having lately is, when I'm not running into Niki's (who can rip the 109F4 a new hole), I'm running into spits and La7s together.  This sucks for me bigtime, as I can get away from the Spits, butnot the LA7, who then forces me to slow down to fight him so the spits can catch up.  Died a few times that way yesterday, hehe.  Twice I would have had an LA7 who I dragged away from the spits, only to have the spits show up as I'm finally getting on the La7s tail.

[Dmitry]

Twice I would have had an LA7 who I dragged away from the spits, only to have the spits show up as I'm finally getting on the La7s tail

Dont you feel the urge to whine a little when that happens? Spend 5-10 maybe 15 minutes to prepare a kill and see another enemy closing in at 400 mph blazing his guns at you? lol I have very little hair left because of things like that