New Panther Tank

[Karnak]

Didn't the King Tiger have this ability? 

The Tiger I seems to have had the capability.  As I understand it, the Tiger II used the exact same drive system as the Tiger I, so it would have it too.

[WWhiskey]

The Tiger I seems to have had the capability.  As I understand it, the Tiger II used the exact same drive system as the Tiger I, so it would have it too.

since the tiger one was as heavy as it was and probably was not to good at doing it without removing its tracks  I would imagine the T2  would be more likely to tear stuff up and less likely to be recommended as such to do so!

[FLOTSOM]

OK a simple understanding of what you are seeing in that video.

the slight optical illusion of the tread spinning is what leads people to believe that the tread is actually turning of its own volition.

the (from facing) left tread is turning the right tread is not, except for some torsional rotation and brake slipping caused by the strain. this separate braking allows for almost all tracked (or independently driven axles) vehicles to turn in place. the difference with the Panther is that its transmission was the first designed to allow both tracks to truly turn in independent directions of each other allowing the tank to spin in place without digging up the ground and breaking the tracks.

[2bighorn]

OK a simple understanding of what you are seeing in that video.

the slight optical illusion of the tread spinning is what leads people to believe that the tread is actually turning of its own volition.

the (from facing) left tread is turning the right tread is not, except for some torsional rotation and brake slipping caused by the strain. this separate braking allows for almost all tracked (or independently driven axles) vehicles to turn in place. the difference with the Panther is that its transmission was the first designed to allow both tracks to truly turn in independent directions of each other allowing the tank to spin in place without digging up the ground and breaking the tracks.

GEARBOX
The Maybach-Olvar gearbox provides eight forward speeds and four reverse speeds with pre-selective hydraulic engagement. The gears are arranged on a main shaft, lay shaft and reverse lay shaft, although, in fact, both main shaft and lay shafts consist of four short lengths of shaft each carrying a gear and each able to be engaged or disengaged by a dog clutch. The rearmost dog clutches on both main shaft and lay shafts are controlled by selection forks mounted on a common shaft in such a manner that when one dog is engaged, the other is free. The movement of these selector forks is controlled by a double acting hydraulic cylinder mounted on the top of the gearbox. Likewise the central pair are operated by another cylinder. The remaining dog clutch on the lay shaft is operated by a third cylinder, but has engagement with a different gear at each end of its travel (i.e. no free position). The remaining dog clutch on the main shaft and the dog clutch on the reverse are operated together by a hand lever, so that in the forward position of the hand lever the dog on the main shaft is engaged and that of the reverse shaft free, with the exact opposite for the rear position of the hand lever, whilst in the intermediate position of the hand lever both dogs are free. Thus for forward drive, once the hand lever has been placed in the forward position, all changes of gear are effected through the operation of the hydraulic cylinder. The movement of the gear change lever through its quadrant causes the rotation of a valve which determines the distribution of oil pressure to the appropriate hydraulic cylinder for the ratio required. Side pressure on the gear change lever then admits pressure to that cylinder and effects the gear change. In reverse the procedure is similar but only the four lowest ratios are available. With the exception of the final output gear and the main shaft and reverse shaft meshing with it, all gears are single helical. An extension of the final output shaft carries a spiral bevel for the main drive, whilst an extension of the main shaft carries a small straight bevel for controlling the speed of the steering differentials. At the input end of the main shaft is a multi-disc centrifugal clutch which can, however, be disengaged by the admission of hydraulic pressure to a cylinder, the piston of which operates a withdrawal fork.

The same withdrawal fork is operated by the clutch pedal. A small cone clutch on the input side of the main shaft and the rear end of the lay shaft are geared together and operated by hydraulic pressure giving synchronization of the lay shaft with the engine speed. The input shaft also drives, through two gears, a fore and aft shaft on which are mounted two oil pumps, which provide the pressure necessary for hydraulic operation. Another unit driven from this shaft is the engine rev counter. Hydraulically operated brake shoes are provided for the slowing of the main clutch and the second gear from the input end on the main shaft, and a hydraulic device adjusts the throttle opening as required. An easily accessible oil filter is provided which serves both gearbox and steering unit which have a common oil level; the level is checked by a dip-stick on the gearbox and replenished through a filler cap. The oil capacity is 32 litres (7 gallons).

STEERING UNIT
Steering is effected by imposing different speeds on to the sun wheel of an epicyclic, whose annulus is positively driven by a bevel meshing with the main gearbox output bevel, and whose planet carrier carries the output flange to the final drive. There is one of these epicyclics at each end of the bevel shaft meshing with the gearbox output bevel.

The direction and speed rotation of the sun wheel and the choice of left or right hand sides are governed by the engagement of two or four hydraulically operated multi-disc clutches. These clutches connect the sun wheels through a lay shaft meshing with the small bevel on the extension of the gearbox input shaft. In this way a choice of two speeds both proportional to engine speed, is imposed at will upon the sun wheel of the epicyclic whose annulus is already rotating at a multiple of engine speed according to the gear engaged. In addition, in neutral with no output from the main gearbox bevel, a drive is still obtained from the bevel on the extension of the gearbox input shaft, and this produces with the engagement of the appropriate steering clutch opposing rotations of left and right sun wheels. As the annuli are unable to rotate in opposite directions owing to their being secured to the same shaft this opposite rotation of the sun wheel, of necessity, produces opposite rotation of the output flanges, resulting in a neutral turn. For one full revolution of both output flanges the gearbox input flange performs 117 revs.

Oil pressure from a pump driven by an extension of the fore and aft gearbox shaft is admitted to the required steering clutches through ports in the steering assembly casing, the opening of which is controlled by a piston valve. Movement of piston valve is governed by the driver's steering wheel. In this way two distinct radii of turn are available for each gear engaged, and identical for left and right turns. A mushroom shaped knob on the gearbox casing operates hydraulically a brake on one section of the main shaft, thereby eliminating clutch drag and making the neutral turn more positive.

The tank can also be steered when required by steering levers on each side of the driver which operate the right and left brake assemblies.

Even though its powertrain systems might not have been the most reliable, when they worked the Tiger was quite mobile for its size and weight. It could pivot in place, completely turning around in a distance of 3.44 meters (11.28ft).

[curry1]

tiger came out before the panther and it didnt have the same transmission as the panther. the tiger's transmission wouldnt allow for separate track movement. and ackack i actually looked at the M26, nothing that i read up on said anything about separating tracks to allow for this with the transmission. the only tank i have been able to find information on this is the panther. and i know for a fact that the tiger did not do this.

your saying that tank destroyers couldn't rotate on their axis that is bullcrap.

[Big Rat]

  been holding my tongue about this since the convention.  Actually as far as frontal protection the panther tends to be a slightly better then the Tiger 1, mostly due to the armors slope.

             Panther G               Tiger 1
Turret F.     110/11deg.          100/8deg.
hull front      80/55deg.(upper) 100/24deg
                  60/55deg.(lower)
gun mantlet   100 (curved)       100-110/0deg.


As far as gun comparison's between the 75mm L-70 and the 88m L-56

If both are firing standard AP rounds Pzgr39

                 muzzle velocity                                      Penetration of Homogeneous Armor plate at 30 deg. from verticle (mm)
  
                                                         100m             500m                 1000m                 1500m               2000m
KwK42 L-70         925 m/s                       138                124                   111                     99                    89

KwK36 L-56         773 m/s                       120                110                   100                     91                    84

As you can see the guns are very comparable.  The panthers gun was considered one of the best in the war.

I haven't seen the penetration factors or the 17pounder british gun, but if someone could please post would love to compare.

Supposedly this was going to be a late G model that we are getting with the chinned mantlet (no shot trap)

can't wait

 
BigRat

[Belial]

I received leaked information that the Panther was in the works a while ago...didn't think it would be coming so soon sweetennnesss

[WWhiskey]

OK a simple understanding of what you are seeing in that video.

the slight optical illusion of the tread spinning is what leads people to believe that the tread is actually turning of its own volition.

the (from facing) left tread is turning the right tread is not, except for some torsional rotation and brake slipping caused by the strain. this separate braking allows for almost all tracked (or independently driven axles) vehicles to turn in place. the difference with the Panther is that its transmission was the first designed to allow both tracks to truly turn in independent directions of each other allowing the tank to spin in place without digging up the ground and breaking the tracks.

I watched it 4 times  thinking the same as you,,, but it does have reverse power to it,,, it has too,,, if it did not,, the only way it could be forced not to move would be with the brake,, and that would not allow it to move forward or backward, unless released, and then it would almost always move forward, since that is the way the tank is trying to move and almost all of the pressure would be applied to that direction!

 I know its not simple to understand, but unless gravity was trying to pull it backwards,,, it would only be inclined to move in the direction the tank was already traveling, maybe myth busters will do a special!

[uptown]

This game needs Jap tanks. They may have been crap but the deserve a spot in the line up. Afterall, we do have Spitfires in the game  


carry on gentlemen 

[Volron]

And this is why the Betty has been delayed.  It's a package deal.   Now, the next question is....when will it be released?  I definitely won't be 2 weeks.  My call is early January.

[Yeager]

Heres a great combat film of the Panther in Action in Cologne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt5bJQOkI1g

[321BAR]

BAM!!!

Even though its powertrain systems might not have been the most reliable, when they worked the Tiger was quite mobile for its size and weight. It could pivot in place, completely turning around in a distance of 3.44 meters

the tiger could pivot in place but could not rotate on axis. in fact nothing in that quote by 2bighorn says it will

And no. tank destroyers in WWII could not rotate on axis curry... IIRC the M26 did not have this also (but i have yet to see M26 transmission specs so i may be wrong on this). the panther was a newly developed transmission for its time and was extremely fragile BUT could rotate the panther on its axis but this was avoided due to the fragility of the transmission... Russian tanks in WWII could not achieve this either nor any (if not all) british and american armor.

[321BAR]

I watched it 4 times  thinking the same as you,,, but it does have reverse power to it,,, it has too,,, if it did not,, the only way it could be forced not to move would be with the brake,, and that would not allow it to move forward or backward, unless released, and then it would almost always move forward, since that is the way the tank is trying to move and almost all of the pressure would be applied to that direction!

 I know its not simple to understand, but unless gravity was trying to pull it backwards,,, it would only be inclined to move in the direction the tank was already traveling, maybe myth busters will do a special!

read bighorn's statement. the reason you are seeing its reversal is due to the fact that on that side of the tank the transmission is released and the track is basically in neutral <S>

Edit: aka. friction (not gravity) is forcing it to roll backwards while the other side rolls fowards.

[MarineUS]

  nom nom nom   

[2bighorn]

BAM!!!the tiger could pivot in place but could not rotate on axis.

Pivot is a center point of rotation.

in fact nothing in that quote by 2bighorn says it will

Actually it does.

Russian tanks in WWII could not achieve this either nor any (if not all) british and american armor.

Cromwell MkV, for example, could, etc...